Amsterdam tech week Opening party at Picnic. Founders, experts and investors

out of 100 million uh fund we're going to make potentially 14 to 17 investments >> because I love music uh and I wanted to allow anybody to I thought anybody should be able to experience music >> the the companies that need a certification is when they're selling especially to larger uh enterprise customers this is for sure an entry ticket >> everybody's trying to find a way to cover when things are going wrong instead of thinking how we can make is the same >> and how can we trust that you have security in place and you say oh we don't have that then they're going to say please come back next year when you have it >> it's beautiful and you can see the song unfold in a visual way >> hello >> hello >> what's your name and what do you do >> my name is Paul Buring and I'm the founder and CEO of Cyber Juice >> what does Cyber Juice do >> Cyberjuice is a platform a software platform where we help startups and smaller companies when they are met with the security requirements from their customers. Customers are asking are you certified with ISO 27,0001 or sock 2 or something else then they come to us and we help them get certified without getting a headache. >> Which organizations management manages the issuance of these certifications? that is certified like authorized certified bodies that will give you the actual stamp. I used to explain this like if you're going to get a driver's license, you go to the school to learn how to drive and then you go to the authorities to get your actual to go to the exam and get the actual driver's license. So, we're the driving school and then someone else can give you the actual stamp. >> Are these certifications uh needed to be renewed each year? >> Yes, that's an excellent question. So uh you you have every year you have a reertification so someone comes and check are you still doing things right and is everything in place >> which is the origin of these certifications are the governments pushing for a kind of security framework or or which is the >> so there's a lot of regulations um these uh these days from the EU especially so that is not specifically for certifications but certifications also help to show that you're compliant towards the law and regulations. >> Which kind of h technical aspects are usually covered in this certification? Is it data data let's say storage EU versus US? Is about security against hacker attacks like which are the kind of >> it covers pretty much everything. It's like a broad um information security management system is what it's called. one the main certification that we help with. Um so it covers everything from technical aspects like have you uh do you have good passwords and encrypted hardest and is everything is access control in place. So all the technical aspects then it covers the organization. Do you have good governance structure in place? Is management actually backing up on this? Uh and then you have the uh the people aspect. Do your employees actually know how to have good security habits? Do they know to um not click links in emails, to not let people in the office who not supposed to be there, um to use good passwords and two factor authentication? So, it's it's everything. >> Do companies need to be certified at certain points? because I can imagine a lot of startups will uh start and really don't take a look at the certifications which is the point the time point where they need to be certified >> that's an excellent question um so I would start with saying not everybody needs to be certified so if you are a startup uh building a a product for consumers um your your customers probably don't know anything about these certifications. They still want to know that their data is secure, but then you just have good security practices. You don't necessarily need a certification for that. The the customers that the companies that need a certification is when they're selling especially to larger uh enterprise customers. This is for sure an entry ticket. It's like a license to operate as we say. So you are not going to get through procurement in a to a sales cycle without a certificate for the enterprise customers. So when you ask when do you need it? I would say you need it before you start serious uh sales cycles with enterprise customers. That's a good point. So don't start before you have built anything. You can do some pilots be before you get certified but when you start serious uh sales cycles that's um that's a point where you want to have the certification. >> Okay. and have new certifications been issued since this new AI wave of LLMs than akai I guess now there are new risks and new potential hacker attacks with these kind of technologies right >> yeah so um there is an ISO certification that is focused on AI companies as well so it covers like what you would expect from the more traditional certifications plus some AI um controls as as they're called and this one is called 4201. So there's an isolation for that as well and we have the EU AI act which is uh some of it is already u in place and some of it will come in the next year or so. So that's a law and you can say if you if you uh want to be on top of that well you need to of course understand what's what's in the what are the rules in the law but you can also get the ISO certification to help you have good governance and control around all your AI. >> So so far we we know that for getting enterprise clients you need a certification. What happens if you don't have the certification but you start working with any kind of enterprise? Are there any legal matters in that case or any outcomes that are negative for the >> So it's it's not a legal uh de like it's not a legal requirement that you need a certification. It's more of a market requirement. So what will happen if you go to an enterprise customer and say we have this amazing software product now give us all your data and we're going to help you. They're going to say where is your ISO certification and how can we trust that you have security in place and you say oh we don't have that then they're going to say please come back next year when you have it so that's what will happen you will meet the market demand >> okay and regarding your business what challenges does your business has right now >> so our biggest challenge right now is to get more leads >> okay yes more leads >> so can you send us some leads then that would be helpful >> okay perfect and any lesson that you will tell to the viewers based on your entrepreneurial journey. >> Yes, I have one that I actually learned from another uh founder that I really took to heart and that I think is very good to always remember and that is to stay as stupid and naive as when you started. >> It's uh yeah it's just a really good thing to always remember because it's the energy that keeps you going and keeps you resilient. >> Amazing. And any connection that you would like to have? Well, I want to say Barack Obama, but um I would like some >> we we don't have it yet in the network. >> Well, you don't know that. You don't know that. You might be a second order connection of someone. >> Very soon. Very soon. >> Um I would just like to be connected to uh founders that have this problem and want help because we are really focused on being the best solution for startups. like it it really isn't should be a no-brainer to come to Cyberduce if you have any kind of compliance problem whether you're an AI startup or a SAS startup we have we can help you with your compliance work so I hope you can spread this out to a lot of uh founders and early stage companies that um that want our solution >> perfect we will thank you so much >> thank you and thanks for asking for the interview >> hello hi what's your name and what do you do >> I'm Nicolola I work for Criselix uh as an analyst, investment analyst. I Criselix is an early stage venture capital firm that is based in Vancouver and uh the Netherlands. So we have our main office in Vancouver and then we open an office back in 2018 in the Netherlands because the Tudel University was one of the partner of our four fund and our main focus is mostly engineering firm and deep tech startups. So we invest in this deep tech startups from different sector. So yeah >> which is the ticket size or >> so we have a pretty specific investment model. So our limited partners so the investor in our fund are big corporations. So that can span from different sectors but yeah we can share there some name about we have Mitsubishi Tachi Kur Lion Delbel Ibonic as a chemical companies SCG which is another cement company and basically we understand with them like a problem in the industry in their industry problem that uh we think are relevant to solve a bottleneck in their value chain and then from that side we go back to the startup world and innovation and try to find a solution uh for for that specific problem. A problem that is mo mostly for uh the whole the whole industry not specifically for that partner uh and that's what makes uh the impact for us. So we usually try to be the first investor in a company uh investing 1 to 2.5 million as a first ticket uh taking ownership between uh 20 to 30% and uh leading investing almost every time and uh and then we have the capability to follow up rounds uh with uh later on investment >> which is the main challenge that corporates have when acquiring a VC backed uh firm >> when in acquiring. >> Yeah. So when when the BC wants an exit which is the main struggle there >> well you have to arrive to an exit. So first of all uh it's a whole path through through the exit. So I would say everything that is before the exit it's uh it's already quite challenging. So first of all uh it's everything in the problem you're trying to solve because uh most of the startups especially founders especially technical founders uh they usually look for technology they work on a technology and they find application for that technology uh while I would like to challenge the founders to really uh find a problem that is worth to solve uh not only in terms of size but also in terms of uh why why people cares about that and uh it's important that the founder has the vision of about his company and what he wants to achieve but it's also really important that uh the problem that the technical founder is trying to solve actually work and uh in terms of exit it's uh it's really it's in the deep tech it's a it's it's it's a different thing so it's very rarely that you're going to have an IPO so it's most likely that you have a strategic acquisition from big partner so that's why it's also really important that you try to understand as soon as possible how the industry play who can be interested in this technology and how and why and who can be the potential acquirer. So when we look at a company even very early stage uh we try to understand who's going to be interested in this technology or for example even in which scale because uh maybe for you don't need to scale to use size or in terms of plans and capabilities maybe have to demonstrate the technology and then you have an industrial partner that is already uh once the technology is the risk is is already interested in uh in uh in buying acquiring the company. So you can actually build a thesis around doing an early exit from the company uh if if the industry allow you to. So yeah it really depends on the industry and depends a strategic partner but yeah it's actually changing the industry is a way but changing the industry from the inside is also really really I think something really important that's what we're trying to do because the the thesis of our fund is the decarbonization uh of the industrial asset but the carbonization of industrial assets through uh industrial efficiency. So we targeting every solution that potentially can have an impact in creating value, reducing cost, reducing CO2 impact, reducing uh energy intensive stuff because that's where the value is locked and that's where also the emissions uh are most of the time. >> How many companies does the fund source and how which is the percentage of companies that pass through and are available to pitch to the fund? >> Oh, okay. We have a a database uh where every founder can apply and uh which have that all of our LPS have access also to so it can also give them visibility to the LPS they can have visibility to these investors that might have some power to invest on their own and uh that's potentially like around 2,000 per year something like that in terms of numbers and uh we made out of 100 million uh fund we're going to make potentially 14 to 17 investments usually. So yeah and you're going to see 2k startups per year. Uh then you try to see which one of them match. Then we have 1 hour call with the founder try to understand a little bit more and uh and then but the due diligence process is really long for us. So usually can take even a year even for an early stage company on a small tickets like this and uh so because we also we are a small team so and we go a lot deeper into the technical uh details the IP details and uh so the due diligence gets along so I would say not so many will pass the bar and the bar is pretty high and it's important for us to keep the bar high because uh that's when you show consistency see in through doubts all the funds that uh my company and our VC firm is one of the longlasting in uh in deep tech was founded in 2000 so it's we raising our fit fund so it's really important to show consistency to the investor and that's why the bar is super high so what's a red flag that you can find when a company shows up to you >> well I would say again it's sometimes startups they think about what the investor would like to see. Um but sometimes they they have no clue in the sense that uh sometimes they show you uh technical details. I can do this faster. I can do this cheaper. I can do this better. But it's not important if no one cares about that advantage. So for example, I was talking with a company that it was making a new cement materials and they were saying I can my cement materials can dry faster two times faster and then I actually call a customer a potential user of that of that material and it was like yes but I build a wall then I leave it dry and in the meantime I'm building other walls so I don't care if it takes one day or three days to do it. So that's a technical advantage but no one that doesn't unlock anything. So the real important when I'm saying solving a problem that matters is really about solving um a problem that can unlock value. So uh something a piece of data that is missing in in some sort of processes that when you unlock that you can attach that to some big decision making um process that can unlock some value increase the throughput increase the plant capacity reduce the energy cost and it's also so important it's so very important for uh specifically also for the industry and for potential acquirers and corporations that it's not only about reducing the cost but it's creating the strategic value. Uh so there is so many example and so many nuances but it's really try to find a niche problem that have an impact a big impact. So that's no one focus around there is less competition and it's really about that understand a problem really deeping with a technical analytical eye scientific eye to go deep you know into a problem and and and understand it and then try to use the engineering world to solve that problem instead of like use the engineering world create a problem and uh and then solve the problem with your technology. So I would say more program driven less technology push uh especially for some of the VC then if that's our investment model of course there are some type of innovation where of course a technology push uh can work and there's plenty of cases but yeah depends for for a VC for a VC like us it's really important that because it's actually show that you can grow you can have return on >> what's the difference of investors in Vancouver in Canada and in Europe >> wow that's uh that's something that we see every day. Um I would say Vancouver in general, Canada is uh has a bit of North American mindset. So uh they're less risk adver like less risk adverse than than us. And also culturally they're more close to North America also about this and people is actually thinking entrepreneurally like I I would like to build the company and they they they know what's the entrepreneurship story should be here in Europe especially in innovation but in every in every any piece of the of the ecosystem there is a lot of risk adversion and you can see that in in deal terms it's not friending and neither for the investor nor for the for the founders uh everybody's trying to find a way to cover when things are going wrong instead of thinking how we can make this succeed. So and then then it's a reflection that that is reflected then in the in the term sheet and uh in the regulation in the all the bureaucracy that you have around uh permitting for first of a kind plans it's it's really important it's really slow it can take some time while in the US maybe you can you have different regulation or you don't have regulations I would say it's better to it's good to have regulation but there should be different regulation between the fast pace of a startup and the fast pace of early stage companies compared to the pace of uh the rest of innovation or corporates innovation or in general. Uh so that's that's really really something that I miss and then the other big difference of course is the market and um in Europe you have different markets in US and Canada you have one big market and one language while here you have a lot of nuances a lot of different regulations so open a market in the Netherlands and then move to Germany is a completely different game then you have to move to the N the Nordics add some other risk and can slow down the pace so uh of course like Europe is moving towards like having like a more share regulation and stuff but it's really also about the different stage that should be like adoc uh regulation for different stages of the company I would say >> any lesson for the viewers that you would like to mention >> well in founders or whoever >> whoever >> fuel curiosity still have a lot of curiosity about stuff because uh it's it's what fueled the work. So it's really about keeping up the open the the eyes open and have curiosity every day to whatever it can be the policy can be a new founder can be a new love or a new company or whatever just have the curiosity to go and explore everything deeply because otherwise there's nowhere living and doing what we do. >> Nice. And any connection any for connection that you would like to get? Well, if you willing to approach the VC word, feel free to contact me on LinkedIn. And um a lot of stuff is it's difficult because a lot of stuff I realize in the VC work happen behind the scenes. So feel free to to to reach out potentially and the same for founders like we have uh our website where you can uh leave our pitch deck and uh your pitch deck sorry and uh yeah >> perfect. Thank you so much for the interview. No worry. Hello. >> Hi. >> What's your name and what do you do? >> Uh, I'm Jonah. I'm a tech entrepreneur. >> Which is your startup? >> Uh, it's called Dub Live. It's a music app. I'm aiming to make people be able to make music. Make it as easy as listening to it. >> How does it look like? >> Um, it's a sound canvas. So, if you think of something like Mirro, uh, where you have all these different shapes, um, double Live is a sound canvas. So you have lots of different shapes and each of the shapes makes different sound or has a different musical effect. You can touch and change and play and create music as you go along. >> What's the origin of this uh canvas idea? In which did you base your your idea and where do you think this is the approach that you want to take for your company? Well, it's a long question because uh I started making music apps a long time ago and it's just sort of been an iterative process to get to where it is now. Uh I suppose I've always had an interesting idea of uh if you're a guitarist, you have or or a musician, you have like muscle memory. You know how your fingers you play guitar and you your fingers know where they're going to go. I don't think very hard how to do it. If I could encode that knowledge into a into a visual interface, then anyone could take the same thing and and make it their own, >> if that makes sense. >> Okay. And when that pop, why why did you decide to facilitate this? Why did I decide to name? Because >> because I love music. Uh and I wanted to allow anybody to I thought anybody should be able to experience music. Um and I always wanted to make it social. I always wanted it to be um not just a thousand elite artists with a million fans, but a million people with, you know, a thousand fans or just their friends. It doesn't have to be a a perfect song to enjoy it. Um especially if you're making it in live in front. >> And what's the stage of the company right now? Which uh challenges do you have right now? >> The challenge is is kind of done. The challenge is gaining over the release anxiety being out there. This is this is actually uh the week I plan to launch, but I probably said that last week and the week before. >> Okay. So now it's time to launch. >> Yes. >> Which uh actions are you going to take to to launch? >> Well, obviously I have to like do all the QA, make sure it works, that kind of stuff. The steps beyond that, I have a a kind of a list of friends, a list of uh people that I know that would enjoy it, that I can that I know well and I can get intimate feedback from. So I would give it to them. um probably have some calls and work through things with them. Um that's and and and see how that goes. I'll probably change some things, loop that a bit and just grow slowly. It's better to have good feedback um quality feedback than just, you know, a thousand people used it, some people say some stuff. >> Are there any competitors that are doing something similar in the space? Do not mention them. I mean the road the road to social music technology making is littered with dead projects along the way. So it's a it's a kind of a difficult path. Um many people have tried to monocatize music um and it's it's it's uh failed many times. So in a way it's a risk. Um but I think I have some interesting ideas. Uh so one of them is making it visual. Like typically when you make a song, you make a song uh you share it and and you have a song file. What do you do with that? You can't load it onto you know Tik Tok or you know it's people we're in a visual society now. Everyone wants a video. So I've I've turned it by making it into sound canvas. It's beautiful and you can see the song unfold in a visual way. So instead of sharing a song, you show a video of that. Uh that's that's one way that I hope will enable people to kind of engage with it in a in a different way. >> So what do you think about AI in music? >> Well, I think it can be part of an interesting process, the way you use AI to explore things, but I think you the human has to be in the loop. Somebody sent me an Somebody sent me a list of AI songs. It was an app that you could make AI songs in and you could go to their gallery and people had made, you know, a thousand AI songs and I was like this the mo I could I couldn't even listen to one cuz I don't care like the value of it is close to zero when it's so easy. The the resistance to there's nothing to be impressed by. You know, you see someone climb a mountain or play some incredible piano, it's like really hard. that's impressive like to to to prompt something is not really impressive. >> Which is one lesson that you would like to give to the viewers. I think it's important to stay with your vision um and stick with that and not get distracted by other ideas or um I've studied a number of things that I think if I'd seen them through and kept going and given them the daylight that they deserved and got through the kind of some of the pain along the way um that belief would have seen it through and they would have been valuable. Um, and I think I think it's too easy too easy to get distracted by the next interesting idea. >> Okay. So, be true to yourself. >> Yeah. And and stay stick with stick with it. >> Stick with it. Okay. And any connection that you would like to get from the the the audience? >> Uh, I'd like to meet uh some amazing new musicians um the next generation that are going to make next next 10 years of incredible music. Perfect. Thank you so much for an