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in this moment uh she developed a secondary infection um and before they could find something else you know in 2 days she was gone so for me why did I build turn I'm like I couldn't look away how do you handle innovation in a corporate when the different teams they do not report directly to you >> how do you get people to align I think it all almost comes back to either a common objective or a common crisis so we would b buy from the consumer Because the challenge in the category was that supply was limited. Demand was exploding. Everybody wanted a used car but nobody could trust it. They ran out of uh uh nurses in that hospital. They're like too busy running around everywhere. A few people quit. Um and she was asked to leave the hospital bed. Yeah. And for for me like that one thing was just I I I hadn't understood that it could be like this, you know, where somebody who's in that condition is actually asked to leave. Her only dream was to work in the NHS. The same NHS that did not have nurses for my friend. He got the job, got the visa, came to the UK, and realized the job is fake. There's no job with the NHS. Um, what if you could build the world's first AI hospital? What if you could build a completely distributed healthare system that only has the nurses as the delivery of the care and everything else is taken care of by AI needs to wake up every day uh with the belief that this is going to be a the biggest outcome that you can imagine while everybody else is telling you it will not work out. So hello guys, here we are with Ainab. >> Lovely to meet you. Thanks for >> turn group. We're gonna have some summary of his professional trajectory. But Ainab now is leaving turn group which specializes in building a workforce for health care in European countries or other countries based on distributing right the labor from countries where there is an over supply of talent. >> Yes. >> To to countries where there is an under supply. But uh before that I would like to go into your career. >> You started in Proctor and Gambo years ago. That's right. >> Where you improve uh 20% the processes the re reliability on the supply chain making products and also you had this achievement with underinvestments in less time. So um this was the start of your operations uh career. How this improvements and this experience in processes affected your the way of looking at the startups now? >> Sure. Sure. I mean it's a great question. Thank you. Um maybe just to give you a little bit of context. I um I've sort of uh grown up between the UK and India as a kid. Uh sort of migrated nine times. I studied in I think 10 schools uh in my in my student life. Um so I think one of the things that is quite important is almost the adaptability and sort of being able to uh attack a new problem, a new place, a new country. Um I'm a chemical engineer. So I studied many years ago now it's a bit w bit long ago. Uh chemical engineering in India uh at this place called IIT. Um I went from there to uh Proctor and Gamble uh in in Japan. Uh so my first job was actually in working in a production facility in rural Japan. Yeah. Uh so think of it like uh 300 Japanese people and one Indian guy. Right. So that was my life. I I think being able to even have uh that kind of a completely uh deep end thrown in the deep end kind of start to your career. Um I would say it made a lot of who I am as a person. Uh I think it also is the best learning experience. It's also the toughest um because you're not just solving processes which you were mentioning which I which completely agree with but I think I was solving human differences and culture and you're trying to integrate into society into new new food new people new language I speak Japanese now right so for me it was a survival skill right you can't you can't operate in that country with without the language so I I think being able to uh understand how to lead people how to manage people how to create uh trust and how to build relationship was probably the biggest learning experience uh from my time at early years of PNG. Uh the second thing as you said correctly is uh coming as an outsider looking in. So I was an outsider looking into uh Proctor and Gamble which is an American company but in Japan it operates in a very Japanese way, right? So it's very local sort of way. Um you can look at the same process in a completely different way. Yeah. So one of the things I I I I remember we were having problems with the um production line. We produce uh these uh detergents and and dishwashing liquid and so on. So being able to we had a problem of the cap going the wrong direction up after the the um the the machine was finished and the cap was on this side. And if you think about as a consumer you're like how does it matter? you still need to open the cap but the notch was on one side and the Japanese consumer is so demanding that for them if they see it in the shop and the cap notch is in different directions they don't buy the product so I think the other learning for me apart from process was that everything is about the consumer everything is about the customer what they care about um and we actually spent I remember spending three and a half months on the line night and day trying to fix the rotation of the cat um so I think these are like learnings that come, you don't expect them. I think process improvement is probably second or third priority. We did it. We got a great result. Uh but I I'm still most proud of being able to solve the needs of the very demanding Japanese consumer. Uh and also that's where I think I started to be more interested in the upstream nature of uh brand building and consumer and you know how do we think about um starting from zero for a new product. So that's that's how it transitioned out of process. We did a lot of good work. We I think really uh we had one of the projects awarded by the president of the the of Asia. Uh did really well but I think for me the most interesting was the human aspect. Indeed. And later on you became a brand manager right a product and garble and you created new products innovated in a corporate a big corporate h I'm really curious about how do you handle innovation in a corporate >> when the different teams they do not report directly to you yes how do you motivate and coordinate these teams >> yeah I mean that's a fantastic question I think we we we we there's a term I like entrepreneur right and then entrepreneur right so entrepreneur is inside the company uh trying to create change trying to drive innovation um I think I would say three factors contribute really heavily so I'll give you an example we uh we launched uh Korea market so I was one of the teams that was responsible for launching uh the fabric softener called Lenor if you know it's called also called Downey in the US so launching it for Korea uh and I remember the challenge that we were a little scared of how regulation will respond to us. Uh because we had a capsule inside like this, think of it like very micro capsules that create the beautiful scent. Yeah. Um but we had a little bit of concern from the uh consumer uh in Korea again everything goes back to consumer uh in South Korea that we did the research that oh what if the capsule stays on my skin? So there was this worry that there is some chemical staying on my skin. The fact of the matter is there was enough testing done. There was no worry about the actual scam impact was was was safe. It was gentle. Um but how do you get that out of your head? So to your point on how do you get people to align? I think it almost comes back to either a common objective or a common crisis. So I I think our our way of launching Korea became almost like oh wow okay we cannot launch the business we cannot launch the market because there's a crisis >> yeah indeed just to give some context Lenor at that po moment was one of the brands that was not really performing good in company right and you grew it to become the first ranket company >> so exactly so we went from number three number four position in most of our markets like Japan and Korea and Asia uh to number one position over the four years, three four years that uh that we we we took it on and um I think mostly as you as we discussed is all going back to what the consumer wanted uh rather than uh what the product performance can be. Product performance is important but I think one of the key aspects of consumer goods and specifically PNG that creates I think the most amount of CEOs in Fortune 500 uh comes from XPNG uh employees um is it's all about the consumer. Let's always go back to that's the that's the only source of truth that exists. Everything else is secondary. So um just on that note for for for for the launch so the the crisis of the regulatory became a common binding factor. I think it became much easier when everybody realized that there was a um a potential a huge loss for the company. It could be a potential uh regulatory risk. Uh so we all sort of work night and day to achieve that. I think the other thing is as I mentioned as long as your source of truth is consumer uh it's very hard to debate then the finance function has the same objective the HR has the same objective the operations team has the same objective the brand has the same objective and this is where companies like PNG do really well which is the brand management essentially runs the P&L so because they know what the consumer wants the R&D is also just listening to what the brand manager wants the finance is listening to what the brand manager wants so even though there's no official reporting uh this their belief which I think has held them in goodstead for almost 200 years is that the consumer is always right. So I think that's the other area. So you align against the common objective let's say consumer or you align against the common crisis. Those two things I think work well. >> Okay. I see later on in your career you joined a startup u I don't know if it was a startup at that moment right cars 24. Yeah, >> which is a market leader now in marketplace in used cars in India. >> How did the experience from Proton and Gamble change in cars 24? >> Was everything that you learned there useless or >> or you had to learn really different things in cars 24? >> Amazing. So look uh just a very quick um I had a pit stop before between uh PNG and cast 24 and my pit stop I'm talking about cars right pit stop uh was uh I built my own I built one startup before that that um failed uh so I'd like to talk about if it's okay for a minute uh so I built a a company uh so we moved out of Singapore moved back to to India uh to build the first uh sort of plant-based uh meats startup in Asia at that time uh where we were doing R&D and research and sort of synthetic meets and and and you know retail and consumer was really deep deep work um >> what time was this >> this was right after PNG this is 2012 2012 2012 2013 >> um and I think this is way too early >> that's the other thing >> that's what I was thinking my >> so I think the u the learning is that uh even know the idea was phenomenal. I think we had the right investors supporting us, people that understand food, tech and private equity and we're coming from the right spaces and the team really understood how to build um a highquality uh uh you know vegan product. Um I think it was really the PMF was completely missing. There was no product market fit you know. So we we had consumers and we like look India is in a vegetarian country they will get it you know they all want to no not at all there is a very big distinction between meat and vegetarian food and meat still today is considered a kind of eating like a a you know pardon the language almost like a sin right it's considered like you're you're eating a very a non-religious product right um so when they see a synthetic meat it is almost the same feeling So it's not that it's vegetarian. That's not the point. They don't want to be tempted to eat the meat even if it's vegan meat. So it was really surprising. But again, I made the mistake of uh at that point uh uh you know going in with the high conviction and high belief uh but really not in the early days um designing according to the consumer. My mistake. But then as we learned over the year we sort of moved on from the product. At that time we we wanted to pivot into a um delivery model. So like a door dash or or or you know a bolt or bolt food or any of these products. Uh but again I think it was a bit too soon for the market to catch up on quick commerce. So that was a pit stop. Uh and then as you said I was part of the founding team at um company called K 24. Uh so cast I think there's a similar model maybe in LATAM you might maybe maybe not. It's Kavak uh which is essentially a used cars trading platform. Uh so K 24 we started uh around also 2012 2013. Um, one of the big learnings was that the consumer was becoming very aspirational and however they did not trust the used car segment entirely because it was just dealers and people trying to cheat you and you know they'll paint on the tires and show you it's a new car and they'll change the the number on the odometer for the mileage and you'll you know sell you as a new car is is completely crazy, right? So we said what if you could create a completely trusted brand. Um and the model was largely what we call C2B. So we would b buy from the consumer because the challenge in the category was that supply was limited, demand was exploding. Everybody wanted a used car but nobody could trust it. So we ended up going to only the best sort of businesses that already had a reputation for selling the car but they were missing supply as well. So we created that standardization layer in the country um now over 12 years ago um and started with an online first approach of finding the consumer taking them offline um to a store where a you know a inspector would put an app put in 240 data points this is before AI and before everything else so everything was sort of on the app uh we'd pick up photos and videos and all of that and then the in immediately within like while you're sitting in the store having coffee or chai. Um, your car was getting sold. So, there was an auction happening in the background. Automatically, the price is going higher and higher because all these businesses, hundreds of businesses that wanted the car were bidding against each other. It was a live auction. It's never been done before. Even like some of the companies that uh we we know in cars haven't done that. A live auction platform where the price would go in 30 minutes. You'd get the best price, go ping, you could see it in front of your screen, the price going higher and higher and higher. You get the best price, you like it, you sign on the iPad, payment is done in 10 minutes, then an Uber will come and take you home, right? So the process of selling became almost like a completely 10x experience. So like I think Brian at Airbnb talks about that, Brian Chesy, uh that unless you're creating a 10x better experience, you're not really changing the category. And if you're not changing the category, people are not going to remember you. It's not going to be a addictive experience. You need to build an addictive experience. And I think again everything goes back to consumer. So I think for us even at cars that was one of the big and I was I was working on the entire consumer piece the supply side really creating that delightful experience. Um so really enjoyed that journey in building the company. Then we of course ended up having SEOA invest. We had um a few sort of soft bank and a few of the marquee investors come on board. Um I was there until we were we did the Asia launches and the sort of expansion model. Um and then um uh now it's an 11-year overnight success because we're about to IPO the company in the next couple of quarters. So it's been it's been a crazy journey but really really rewarding in looking back. >> Amazing. Cars 24 also then you join to pay and then to hot start right. >> Yes. >> Which uh have become leaders and also great successes in the market. I think these all three share well in general everything but these all three share one common factor which is a large India market opportunity and that you became leaders in this market opportunity. >> What these three companies uh when you were in make different that the other competitors did not became >> leaders in their in the category. >> Great question. Um so um cost 24 uh let's say uh pay you which is a nasper's uh portfolio company in payments. It's a payment gateway uh powering most of the e-commerce uh in Asia right in many countries in Asia. Um and then uh Hotstar which became Disney plus the platform which uh you know my kids use all all kids use across the world. Um and we saw the journey to 100 million users which is pretty phenomenal. Um I think what what they all share as you're correctly saying what they share in common I think would be three things. Uh number one is a highly fragmented market where the behavior is already starting to change. So as an example if I pick up Disney plus or hot star um there was already a behavior for YouTube uh coming up in India massive amount of users starting um there was a lot there was a change also in the infrastructure which is access to data became cheap right so access to sort of 3G 4G became cheap um mobile phones became cheap so a lot of the conditions were were we call them tailwinds right a lot of the infrastructure conditions became true um there was a decline in a purchases of TVs and and and sort of people didn't really want to because everybody's too busy and running around. They didn't nobody had very few people actually started buying TVs. So moving away from that and then the mobile became the the consumption of entertainment, right? So those changes were happening rapidly. Um and I think that is what I mean by sort of always follow the consumer, right? So you you almost need to find that moment in time where the inflection in the category is about to come. I don't know how to describe what the maths is or the science is. I have no idea. It's somewhat of a feeling and it's somewhat of a um infrastructure um changes that you can observe. Uh and then you you you go with the gut, right? Um so I think for us as well that was one of the learnings is like the the Indian consumer at that point was at an inflection point and they were aspirational, they wanted the world and they didn't want to pay for it and you know all of that was happening. Um and I think we the the second thing we did really well is we moved extremely fast and iterated quickly. Um I think not going in with a um a single opinion on what the product should look like starting with the consumer but letting them sort of trans translate into our iterations constantly. So I think I remember we had bunch of uh initiatives um around um you know how do we test for premium for pay walls how do we test for advertising you know how do we test for the selection of the content on the platform the OTT platform um I mean it was really crazy pace right so second thing is you have to move very fast because the consumer also they can't describe exactly to you what they want because they've never seen it before so it's like you expose something and then you learn and then you expose post something, learn it, and keep keep expanding. So, I think that was the second thing was the pace. Um, and I would say the third thing for us uh really was ensuring um a a high degree of focus on um uh execution quality. Uh especially when it comes to capital side, making sure you're well well capitalized um when it comes to in our case, for example, the advertising was a big part of the sales driver. So, making sure there's a huge sales effort happening. Um and I would say lastly even in uh uh the the uh the execution side was the team. Uh eventually it all comes down to this is one of the only companies I remember uh getting that job um which I left my wife hated me for it because it was one of the most coveted jobs and it was like the the the uh running all of all of consumer side for for uh for Hotstar for Disney Plus. Um but uh they were the one of the only people that were attracting uh highquality talent that had overseas experience that had both the India as a DNA but also had seen large corporates large sort of outcome. So they they were dreaming huge right? So I remember folks from Google, from Facebook, from from PNG, from Uni Lever, from you know KO coming into Amazon, right? Coming in to build the model and I think that created a very high quality um if you will intellectual space to jam and keep moving. So I think those are few things that really came together for all of these models in fact but uh as an example for Disney Plus hot start as well. >> Amazing. And later on you started your journey in Europe right with IMO. How well how was the the difference in an India or Asian companies and then going to the European market? >> Yeah, fantastic question. So, so I've done uh Japan, I've done Singapore, you know, moved around in India for work and and as a kid and uh I have grown up in the UK. So I was there in the '90s um in the UK in and I think so for me like I I don't consider myself of a particular country. I might look Indian um a British passport but I spent most of my time in Japan. Like it's super weird, right? Um but I think um the reason why I made a lot of sense was because a lot of the factors for the category side and the and the company side were very similar. Um one is fragmented category. Um huge consumer pain point uh which means trust was very low. uh in real estate is the same problem as cars. You're trying to sell a property, nobody trusts the brokers. So, one of the last thing people people don't trust. Why do they make so much money? You know, what are they doing? It's just you're getting people in has to pay them so much money. There is a bit of trust problem in the category as well. Documentation is huge huge uh sort of we don't know if there's you know if I get something wrong, if you know some issue happens later on. Um there is >> for for some context to to the view I emo at the end built like a distribution operational let's say layer between uh real estate institutional investors that wanted to invest in European residential uh market. Yes. >> And since Europe European residential market is fragmented we had a viv with the learnings. >> Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So I think the idea was essentially very similar to cars 24 where we built a institutional investment platform that allowed um players like private equity all the way to insurance companies and pension funds that were looking for not crazy returns. They were looking for stable returns but long-term holds right and for them it was really important to invest into the social fabric of society and not um create um issues around rental prices and so on. So they're very careful about how they invested and that was a beautiful fit for a asset class like residential which is super fragmented mostly secondary stock C2C transactions only consumer to consumer so we built the entire machine to be able to uh underwrite and look at um 2 to 3,000 properties a month right uh do the the full sort of underwriting process and then find identify the top 40 50 units that we would acquire in that month and then manage longterm um and as I said like the challenges about fragmentation same issue high ticket size same issue trust deficit long lead time as well so the decision-m is very long right even for car selling or for property selling or I'll come to turn from a career point of view very similar challenges in the category um and that's why it made sense for me to consider um going after the market we started from the UK and realized very quickly um that while UK was interesting um the Germany market the German opportunity the Spanish opportunity was much bigger so we essentially went deeper into those into those countries. >> What was the hardest thing to standardize of the whole process? >> Oh wow. Um great question. Hardest thing to standardize I think was the inspection process. Um because there's so many variables when you enter a property. Um it could be the street. Um it could be like you literally have uh one street here and we know this right living in Europe but just between two different streets you can have completely different pricing on rentals or completely different pricing on on on purchase uh because of what we call the micro markets right or micro locations. Um so being able to take a lot of the data in and we were looking at like I think somewhere around 6 700 variables um to come at pricing for the property and we had the best read on most uh German cities at one point in time um because of the number of data points that we were carrying like and there's some crazy stuff that also goes into the data um which uh I mean I don't know if I should sh probably share um there is a a a tracking of for example which where is the new uh shoe store opening up that has an impact on pricing. Where is the orientation of the of the balcony, right? Um where's the fireplace um or not, right? And and is it covered or not? Um the amount of square feet of the windows um and uh crazy stuff like the what is the kind of uh sorry to say but drug that is coming into the wastewater that particular community. uh because if it is a richer drug, we weren't tracking it eventually because I think it was not ethical. Uh but we saw that there was correlations, right? Um it was a richer property, there was richer drugs being used, it was it was a different location, there was different drugs being used. Um so I think that there's it's crazy how much impact can create where's the school, where's the nearest train station, where's the nearest park had a huge impact as well. So we started to sort of create the models which are very very deep. This was before AI. a lot of it were machine learning and so on built but that allowed us to move at a pace that I said before right speed is everything moved at a pace which was just simply not possible uh for any investor to deploy if I'm a black stone I can't put $500 million into German real estate it's just impossible today and we made that possible so we ended up raising and managing over $ 1.5 billion of uh institutional capital for European real estate and that's why sort of the business uh became quite exciting because the returns were off the charts as well they were really happy the performances. Uh but going back to it was really about how do you get all the data and how do you make sense of it through an app based model or through a um online research automated research based model. >> You mentioned that you raise institutional capital for investment but you also raise uh VC funds for the company. What comes first when do you need first institutional capitalist or the clients let's say that wants to invest in property or do you need first the the seed capital to make sense of >> okay great question so um >> so in in in cars uh and I'll come to as well like we we raised around I think just under a billion dollars for VC um I think in the case of emo we needed much less VC uh because um the the operating cost very low. Uh the gross margins in the case of IMO were close to 70%. The gross margin in the case of cars is probably around 15 20%. Uh so that's where you need to invest VC capital to be able to grow the business in cars. We needed less VC capital in the case of IMO because it was largely a business that paid for itself. Um so always the customer, right? So to to your point to answer your point correctly directly, it's always the customer first. So client capital if you don't have it like what's why are we talking about institution right or or or VC money in this case um but of course to get off the ground you might need a little bit of seed capital a couple of million just to make sure the team is there you can you can spend time in the sales process it might take you 3 months might take you six months so it's like a research um u R&D companies deep tech companies take time right it's not the same but with institutional investors it does take time to close so even if I'm a private equity it might take six months to close if I'm a family office it take five months to close, four months to close. If I'm a pension fund, I'm going to take 18 months to close. So, just knowing what your life cycle looks like, you need to have enough runway with a small team. You don't need a massive team, but a small team. And that's how you do the planning, but you need maybe a little bit of VC to get off the ground. A lot of companies are doing it bootstraps. You don't need to raise money all the time, but in our case, we did because the sales cycle was so long. >> Understood. And later on, you founded the turn the turn group. Erh can you explain us a bit about the origin story and what turn Group does now? >> Sure. Um so with IMO we had a a a good run. Uh you know things were going really well. The business was on track. Uh as I said we we were scaling like crazy. Um and um actually one of our clients ended up uh uh giving an offer we couldn't refuse from from that point of view and and from a financial you know sense it made sense uh to to uh to um to take it. uh my partners my co-founders continued I then said look I I'll I'll do something else um and the reason I started is uh uh turn was was uh in this process there was also a big uh personal event that happened that made me u you know almost I had to do something about it so my colleague um in the UK in London um was she was one of the you know smartest people I knew um you know Oxford grad 30 32-y old lawyer um ended up getting cancer in London. Went through sort of five months of chemotherapy. Um and she got fixed. Thankfully she got fixed. Um the journey was you know we were all you know aware of what's happening. I was chatting with her, texting with her. Um 5 months later they ran out of uh uh nurses in that hospital. They like too busy running around everywhere. A few people quit. Um and she was asked to leave the hospital bed. Yeah. And for for me like that one thing was just I I I hadn't understood that it could be like this you know where somebody who's in that condition is actually asked to leave then she was sent into social care uh they did not have the nurses they don't have the beds so she was sent home right so for almost two and a half months or let's say 2 months almost no support um in this moment uh she developed a secondary infection um and before they could find something else uh you in 2 days she was gone, right? Um, so I think for for for me and for us it was a really jarring experience like almost like a feeling of this could happen to me, this could happen. And she was the one of the warmest people we knew, the funniest person we knew, some of the smartest person we knew. And for us like it was also a personal loss. It felt like it was unfair, you know. It felt very unfair. It felt very uh deeply um like losing losing a losing a sister or or a dear friend. it really really hurt a lot of us and I think it broke the company a little bit. Uh I think that was one thing that that that really uh you know became a an obvious thing to look at and say what what do we do here? And the second thing that happened is all happening within the you know few months together. Our nanny um in London was this um nurse from India who her only dream was to work in the NHS the same NHS that did not have nurses for my friend and I'm like what is happening? So, she was taking care of my baby, um, you know, really hardworking and and we figured out that she was a highly qualified nurse who worked with the recruitment agent to get a job and try and get a job in the UK. So, paid the guy some money, paid more money, paid more money over a year, she spent almost £45,000, right? So, let's say €60,000 uh with this agent to get a job. She should have paid zero, right? She should have paid zero. He got the job, got the visa, came to the UK, and realized the job is fake. There's no job with the NHS. Um anyway, so on a personal level, we helped her sort of get the get cleared and and get into a good hospital and but like it was just it blew my mind that something like this industry exists like I know you have heard stories of you know trafficking and you've heard stories of you know fake scams and visas and but it happened to you personally you cannot look away. So for me, why did I build turn? I'm like I couldn't look away. And again, you know, my wife is quite uh, you know, very patient, right, with the fact that I'm like, I'm building again, but I couldn't look away. I mean, I could have built a VC fund, which is what I was also doing when I said, look, no, this is this is retirement. This later right now, I need to solve this problem. So the issue is we've got the largest shortage in healthcare workers that the north, the global north as we call it has ever seen. So right from the US to Europe or most countries to Japan and Korea, Australia, Canada, everywhere there's almost 18 million nurses short, right? That represents around 30 to almost 40% of the workforce in every country. Pick up Germany, pick up Italy, pick up the UK, you know, pick up the US, all of them. Um, and what's happening as a result is the healthcare infrastructure is starting to collapse, right? So we have stuff in the UK like what we call corridor care, right? patients are being treated in the hallways because the nurses need to see three patients at the same time. Um people are there's 67% of the workforce um let's say in the NHS as per the Royal College of Nursing uh is burning out. They want to leave twothirds of your workforce imagine wants to leave. I mean is really a difficult it's nothing to do with um they are incredibly hardworking incredibly dedicated people but they've had too much right so that's one thing that really came about. So we built the model in a way where we connected uh high quality and high supply uh you know locations like India and Africa and Philippines and Eastern Europe uh to to markets like Germany to the UK. Um, so we build a model to mobilize nurses ethically, fairly, without cost, right? Um, entirely AIdriven from the first phone call to the final interview. Everything happens on AI. We have a two-way video interview, clinical interview that happens on AI. Um, so we built that model, we mobilized people, and then what we realized is very interesting is that we were able to uh get these people high quality employment, which completely changed their lives, completely changed the villages they came from, right? because they went from $150 a month to $3,500 a month. They're saving $1,000 a month, which would be saving they make maybe in 5 years or four years. They're making in a month, right? Completely life-changing. Yeah. And at the same time, we saw how impactful they were becoming, but they were getting into a system which is also breaking down a little bit. So, we said, okay, what are the what is the real need that the people have? What is the real need that the patients have? So, what's happening in these countries? The second challenge is lack of manpower. part. The second challenge is the hospital system that exists is very focused on what we call acute or intensive care or or incident care. So if I have a heart attack, if I have a surgery, if I have COVID, you go there, right? But the needs of the countries are shifting to much more of long-term care which is called chronic care. Yeah. If I'm an elderly person, I have dementia, I have a heart condition, I have diabetes, I have diialysis, kidney issues, I don't need to keep going back to the hospital, but I need support to be taken care of at home. And there was we realized there was almost no infrastructure around it. So every country if I pick up, let's say Germany, we invest 450 billion euros ju just to just to complete that thought. So um we realize that the health systems are moving more into long-term care requirements. So geriatric, elderly, um you know, chronic conditions uh where they don't have an infrastructure. So in Germany, we invest 450 billion euros. I'm taking Germany as an example because that's one of our main markets. Uh 450 billion euros into healthcare and elderly care. Out of that almost now 80 billion is going into out of hospital care. Yeah. Healthare. And that category is growing at 12%. Right. This category which is the hospital-based care is flat to declining. Why? Because the needs are moving this way. Average age is 45, 47, 50 years old. You know, people have have a lot of chronic conditions, right? And the infrastructure. So, we said, what if we could build the world's first AI hospital? What if you could build a completely distributed healthare system that only has the nurses as the delivery of the care and everything else is taken care of by AI, right? So is a is a completely crazy idea but we said what if we could do this in Germany and start there and and uh you know everything from HR to admin to finance and billing and operations and rostering and uh you know anything to do outside of the physical injection or the physical wound dressing is taken care of by AI that's what we're building now so turn is essentially an AI hospital the fastest growing hospital chain in or chain we don't even call it's a fast fastest growing healthcare system in Europe um we now do a million patient visits uh in Germany. We are now out of 16,000 companies, we are the ninth or 10th largest operator already. Um we by next year will be the third largest player in Germany period. We'll be crossing 5 million patient visits and and I think our impact on the ecosystem is now in terms of the healthare system is is probably one of the largest possible. We do everything from basic elderly care to you know assistance uh to IVs and injections to diialysis to rehab and physio all the way to ICU at home. Everything. So what this does is it takes a lot of load off the healthare system. It is five times cheaper to keep the person at home, right? So the country saves a lot of money. We are able to mobilize nurses that speak the language. So let's say German, Italian, Danish, whatever. We're able to mobilize the nurses as well. So the manpower short is also solved. So we sort of have a in in my mind a very sort of perfect in my mind of course you know biased perfect solution that the country desperately need these countries desperately need. So that's what turn is doing now. Uh but it started from a point of a personal loss that I think has converted into almost the mission that we simply cannot um forget or ignore. >> Another fragmented market really operationally complex and >> mixing a lot of words together. >> As a last question, we don't have uh much more time. What it takes to be a founder? >> Um I think three things, right? Um, one is, um, you need to wake up every day, uh, with the belief that this is going to be a the the biggest outcome that you can imagine while everybody else is telling you it will not work out. Um, and it's an everyday because it's almost like a a a reset. The paranoia that there are a thousand things that are not like today we're like 2% of the market and everybody's like, "Oh, you're so successful. You're growing so fast." What are you talking about? We're not even a drop in the ocean. So just having that humility to know that, you know, there's a huge road ahead of us, but it only will get built if you execute brilliantly every single day. It's purely a compounding exercise. If you move the company forward 1% every day, at the end of the year, you're eight times larger, right? It's it's very simple, right? The second thing is there's two hard skills that you need as a founder. One is the ability to sell, which means you need to be able to communicate your vision so people can see where you're going. And number two is the ability to execute the hell out of it, right? Nobody the company, you know, I really think I really believe if you don't move the company every single day, the company does not move because everybody's taking direction from you. Everybody's taking Q from you. The culture is top down. That's sort of the the second thing. And I think the last thing what it takes to be a founder is um is having yeah I mean thick skin because you will get rejected by everybody again and again and again. Um so in some ways you need to almost be um deaf to the idea of criticism uh because there will be criticism everywhere. Um so these are the three things I would say a founders need to have. >> Thank you A for the interview was amazing. >> Thank you. It's amazing. Great to meet you. Great to meet you.

and a couple of other serial entrepreneurs who just got together and had a barbecue and had a great time with a lot of like-minded [music] peers. So maybe 50, 60, 70 people. And they thought to themselves that this was great. And they felt that when they started their journeys, they lacked that community. I don't care very much about being a lot larger. When you get to a certain size, it's almost at about 5 or 6 [music] thousand as well. It gets increasingly harder the more you are to find the [music] right people. It's our role to make sure that the best experiences also are on the [music] floor at Tick Barbecue and so the speakers don't just come and then go out again, but that they stick around and meet the people. Organizing a large scale event, you rely on incredible collaboration across departments. That's what investors [music] are focused on. And if you don't fit what they're looking for, you're not going to be able to raise capital. >> Benjamin, nice to meet you. >> Hey, great to meet you, Julia. So you are the CIO and the CEO of Tech Barbecue. >> Yeah. Could you tell us a bit how you incorporated in Tech Barbecue and what was when you came and what is now? >> Yes. So uh I this is my 10th year at Tech Barbecue. Uh I started as a volunteer during my studies. I uh I saw this exciting uh job ad for a paid internship. I applied for it. I went to an interviews and I didn't get it. But our CEO asked if I wanted to come anyway as a volunteer. So I did that for about six months and then about three months in he said, "Would you like a job after all?" And so it was kind of a match made in heaven. Early on we we clicked. It went pretty well. And uh yeah, now I'm 10 years in. 10 years ago it was a yeah, a smaller gathering. It was um I would say about 3,000 people, two and a half, 3,000 people at a much smaller venue. And uh we've been scaling it to about 10,000 attendees to over 90 countries and uh throughout the entire journey we've just been hyperfocused on making a difference for founders. >> What's the main focus of Tech Barbecue? Founders, investors, operators. >> Yeah. So all of them are part of the ecosystem but at the center of attention is uh to make a difference for founders and all of the stakeholders around. So you have the investors, you have subgroups under investors like LPs, angels, early stage, late stage investors and everything in between. Um journalists, you have community builders, uh you have government arms, you have private companies like Google that supporting with credit and everything in between. And all of them play a role as a global ecosystem helping founders. And we bring all of this together and we're essentially just a platform where we hope that they meet and support the right founders at the right time. terms of the of their journey and uh yeah that that's really how we're we're trying to build and operate. So founders at the center of attention the ecosystem is incredibly important and we're trying to position the ecosystem to help the founders the best. >> What's the origin of tech barbecue? >> So it started about I think 13 years ago. It was a small gathering. It was a couple of serial entrepreneurs. It was actually uh the previous CEO of Just Eat that scaled Just Eat globally. uh the co-founder of Unity uh the co-founder of Wideway uh and a couple of other serial entrepreneurs who just got together and had a barbecue and had a great time with a lot of like-minded peers. So maybe 50 60 70 people and they thought to themselves that this was great and they felt that when they started their journeys they lacked that community. So they thought maybe they should keep going like that. And after a couple of years where they kind of paid out of their own pocket, they uh they wanted to professionalize it a bit and maybe not have to pay for everything themselves. So they approached our current coit who was doing something called startup parliament and said, "Hey, do you want to take over tech barbecue?" And uh thankfully he did. Uh did a couple of tech barbecues in our opera house and um and another venue too. I think it was a CBS. And then uh then I joined in 2017 where we were at the meat packing district for a couple of years. Then we went to the locomotive um venue and now for the second year in a row we've been at Bella Center. Yeah. And we're Europe's second largest tech event founders today. >> Amazing. Congrats. >> Thank you. >> I heard also from Kevan that each year tech barbecue has grown in numbers right of attendees. >> Yeah. How do you maintain this grow and which actions do you take to impulse it? >> It's a very good question. Uh to be honest and this is a personal opinion a lot from tech because you share it but it's also a bit nuanced. Uh but I don't care very much about being a lot larger when you get to a certain size. It's almost at about five or 6 thousand as well. It gets increasingly harder the more you are to find the right people between you know it's it's harder to find the people that you want to meet. So especially today and last year we've been very focused on creating intimate inspiring side events with relevant people. So for instance uh this year we're hosting the future of fintech. We always partner with a renowned founder and this one is with sand from flat pay uh where we're inviting 250 to 350 of the best fintech founders, operators, executives, investors to come and meet. so they can meet amongst like-minded peers. It's sort of like a small divorce uh but founder focused. So we have these events in the event in in large 500 square meter event rooms inside a bella where this is happening for like a half or whole or two-day event. So this year we're doing the future fintech. We have an aentic AI event. We have defense and dual use, deep tech, life science, and we actually also have a stakeholder type event which is a board summit. So focused on board members working in in startups and scaleups. So we're we're very focused on creating these intimate inspiring side events with relevant people rather than trying to grow another thousand or 5,000. Naturally, you will grow when you do this. uh but it's a growth that more interesting in the sense that it doesn't dilute the amount of relevant people that's around and once you get very large what tends to happen is that people host side events around the event instead of attending the event and uh that's a disservice to everyone who's at the event in our opinion it'll always happen and I love all of the side events around it but our um I guess it's our role to make sure that the best experiences also are on the floor at tech barbecue and so the speakers don't just come and then go out again but that they stick around and meet the people. We also don't don't have a a huge backstage where speakers just hang out. We hope that they go straight from the stage out to the audience and mingle with like-minded peers cuz if we do that all the way around instead of secluding them everywhere, you know, the general level of the flow is is very cool and all the inspirational people that the newfound founders look up to. They will spot them in the audience. They'll learn from each other and they'll meet each other and so very much focused on scaling through intimate inspiring side events. What's one thing that you cannot avoid if you really want to do a successful event >> in the organization? [clears throat] >> Organizing a large scale event, you rely on incredible collaboration across departments. So you need a a very good dynamic between people uh a very f a large focus on being helpful. The opposite of being silo driven. If you have a silo driven organization, you're not going to succeed doing something like tech barbecue. you just aren't because you will have some of the largest uh of our partners are the likes of Google and Microsoft and Nvidia. They have some great speakers and so we can help provide you know great speakers for the program. The people who are focused on building relationship with founders and investors could also support the program but uh if we don't think about other departments like the program and if the program doesn't think about other departments other than their own we will not create the best event possible. Which challenges does your role entail as CCO and CIO? >> I'm responsible for our revenue and so I'm always very focused on being missiondriven and having a huge faith in that if we just focus on building a diff making a difference for founders the founders are going to be around and if the founders are around then the sponsors want to be here the attendees will sign up and so on and so forth. So that's the simple answer. every every product that we do should be there to make a difference for founders. >> You've seen a lot of startups, scaleups, companies around. Is there any lesson that you would like to tell the audience if they come to tech barbecue to be successful? So I would say building a startup uh one thing that I've learned that has changed in the modern era of AI is that uh it's a lot more powerful to be lean and work smart and be let's say AI native and work on refining that and so that when you scale you can scale to be an incredibly big company in terms of revenue with a very lean company in terms of full-time employees, but they are all AI enabled, AI native, and that's really the venture game today. That's what investors are focused on. And if you don't fit what they're looking for, you're not going to be able to raise capital. And that's okay. You don't have to go that direction. But if you're trying to become a venture-backed startup, this is what they're looking for. And that has changed over the last three years. And it's still something that need to change in their mindset. But the ones who really nail this, they're going to be very successful.

So, when you look at uh high growth markets in different parts of the world, you see Africa as one of the uh last remaining opportunities to be able to make high amount of money. Not only creating companies and just trying to grow and scale them, many of them are doing two, three, four different things at the same time. Because now the African continent um has more options than just one. Uh and with options come better deals. That the floor is not low enough. That the floor is up here. Uh sometimes it speaks to the resilience that you might end up building something but not necessarily stick with it um to the end because even if hits the fan, you would still bounce back up a lot faster. >> And nice to meet you, Pierre. >> Pleasure, Julio. >> My pleasure. >> Yeah. >> Um Pierre, tell us Pierre, tell us a bit where do you come from, uh which company, and what do you do as well? >> I would tell about where I come from from a country perspective first because that's important. I was born and raised in Gambia. But I uh was adopted in Finland. Uh not adopted in the you know, traditional sense, but I uh lived and worked in Finland and became a Finnish citizen. So, I'm a European and African. And I uh I'm a senior expert uh for innovation at House, which is the Finnish Institute for Public Management. And also, I have my own company. So, we uh invest in African tech startups and and uh also do connections between investors who are raising money, so VC funds, um trying to help them raise. >> What's the name of your company? >> Uh Remod. But from this instance, so uh with with House, uh we are part of the seven implementing partners of the Africa Europe Digital Innovation Bridge. That's a 43 million um European Union program that is aimed at bridging the policy, the ecosystem, and access to finance gaps in Africa, basically. >> What do most Europeans do not understand about investing in Africa? >> might see the continent as one big entity, whereas it's a fragmented even within one country, there is fragmentation between the different regions. But with that fragmentation also brings opportunities. Most Europeans would talk about perhaps the high amount of population, growing number of deals that are mostly viewed as risky, but what they don't understand perhaps is the high growth curve that different African markets have. So, when you look at uh high growth markets in different parts of the world, you see Africa as one of the uh last remaining opportunities to be able to make high amount of money. When you compare where um Southeast Asia was, where where Latin America was, uh the growth they have had, compare that with where Africa is and the growth curve um that it has been on, we are getting to that middle-income kind of uh region or continent a lot faster than these two other regions. And I think that is something that is overlooked. >> Mhm. Why here Denmark? Why coming here to seek for seek for investors or other potential partners? >> Denmark has been making strides in uh helping their uh founders, the investors, um and in general the ecosystem to look more outside of Europe because when you look at the economies of the different countries in Europe, there's a lot of stagnation happening. Um and growth is always important for a country like Denmark. And being able to kind of help these entities enter the different African markets, I think it's is an important step. And they don't want to necessarily miss out on the opportunities um that are presented. So, I think yeah, we are here because we also are running a European Union project that is looking to get more investors into the African continent. >> How the African entrepreneur looks like? >> Well, when you look at um African entrepreneurs, particularly in the startup um scene, many of them um are not only creating companies and just trying to grow and scale them, many of them are doing two, three, four different things at the same time. Lobbying for better legislation for startups and scale-ups. Uh that means helping the government set up um new structures that would uh help a certain uh sector move faster. So, you're not only doing um things that in Europe are a given that you you know, that the infrastructure is set, you're just looking to uh build up. And it's the resilience that we see in many of these start um um startup founders uh that kind of boards very well for investments. Because usually in early-stage investing, uh it's not just about giving money, right? You mostly invest in people. And ideas can come you know, a dime a dozen, but it's the resilience of the people who are able to pivot at the right time, um stick with the business even when things are going bad. Uh that hopefully gives you that 100 x exit. >> What are the challenges of your your job? >> Many challenges. So, we can start with the the risk, whether it's perceived um or real. Unfortunately, the perceived risk tends to be much bigger. Painting Africa in one picture, one entity. Um maybe not understanding how diverse it is, maybe not understanding the depth of expertise, the depth of founders and builders who are coming up from different parts of the of the continent, who also have been starting to exit, have their unicorns, pretty successful mid-tier companies as well. And that means that they have been learning from each other, they've been building talent, they've been reinvesting in their different ecosystem. Not to mention, you have a lot of the diaspora, African diaspora, who've spent tens of years um in Europe, in America, in China, etc., who have now started to return, perhaps start up their own companies, perhaps focusing on investing. And that is enriching the African uh ecosystem. And these are really um telltale signs that um the ecosystem is maturing slowly, but the risk the perceived risks uh I think are the biggest uh that we have seen anywhere else. You know, and partly it's because there has been this whole history of the African continent um being painted in a very negative light. >> Yeah. How do you see the future of your company or your mission in 5 years? >> So, in 5 years, we hope that we will have a lot more European investors deploying capital in the African market, that the ecosystems between for example Nordics for example Germany France the different European countries that there would be more synergies between these ecosystems here and the African continent and we hope that there would be a lot more successful market entry opportunities but then also based on a win-win situation. That it's not this old model that Europe the rest of the world is looking to take and go away but more like how do we build stronger relationships relationships and partnerships because now the African continent has more options than just one. And with options come better deals right and and we hope that with the different interventions we have from Europe that we would actually make our very strong case. >> What's one lesson that European entrepreneurs can learn from African entrepreneurs? >> I think resilience we can take the Nordics as an example but this perhaps might cut cut across. There is so much that is given you would never go hungry. If you're sick you always get treated you would always go to school right because all those are free all those are supported government supported etc. And then once you have so much of those things that that the floor is not low enough that the floor is up here. Sometimes it speaks to the resilience that you might end up building something but not necessarily stick with it to the end because even if hits the fan you would still bounce back up a lot faster than most would. And this is why you say that um, immigrants make the best entrepreneurs uh, because of the stories that they have from emigrating from what- wherever they they came from and the push, the resiliency that they have, um, when they are running their businesses. And this is what I see as maybe um, something that the European entrepreneurs can learn from African entrepreneurs.

they need the big tickets, so they need to raise a lot of money to do that transition. And and we are similarly lacking the instrument in Europe to kind of raise that capital. How we can create a more consolidated capital market. It could be that we should have a European stock exchange or Nordic stock exchange. So, there's a strong tradition of quantum research both at the University of Copenhagen [music] but also at the Technical University of Denmark. There's a strong tradition for kind of computational science and mathematics and physics at both institutions as well. So, the So, the ambition of Innovation District Copenhagen is really to be a key a key innovation hub in Europe. Hey, guys. Here we are with Thorsten from IDC. And we're going to ask him some questions about his job and what does IDC do? >> Pleasure to be here. >> Tell me a bit about your role in IDC and what does IDC do? >> So, IDC or Innovation District Copenhagen, that's that's a partnership of all the all the actors in the Copenhagen region ecosystem of innovations. So, the the universities, the university college, a few hospitals, some accelerators, some of the ministries, the city of Copenhagen, and also some corporate organizations. So, a lot of the people that are involved in in the innovation ecosystem. So, we are kind of representing that partnership. And we're trying to do two two things. We're trying to I mean, the overall ambition is to to kind of create on what we already have. A leading European innovation hub here in Copenhagen. It's a It's a government ambition from the Danish government. Um and and we have all these very strong institutions of research and startups. But we we still lack the full transition into scalable companies. Um and we believe in order to do that, we need to kind of fertilize the ecosystem with more private R&D activities. Preferable for corporate companies. So we have now we have the startups, we have the universities, we have the hospitals. And then we need to add the the corporate part. >> In this conference, a general theme that I've been hearing a lot about is that Europe is lacking growth capital. What would be the main problem here? >> I think the very often when we talk about that Europe is lacking growth capital, it's it's due to that we have quite a fractionated capital market in Europe. So there's a stock exchange in Frankfurt, there's one in London, there's one in Stockholm, in Copenhagen. Compared to the US where you have you have only a limited amount of stock exchange. So you have a much more concentrated concentrated capital market and you can raise many much more money. And for some of the companies that move from the from the kind of the early phase, the startup phase and into the phase where they really need to scale, they need the big tickets. So they need to raise a lot of money to do that transition. And and we're similarly lacking the instrument in Europe to kind of raise that capital. >> Mhm. What should policymakers do if we want more startups in Europe? >> I think they are they are I mean, this is complicated. Otherwise, they would have they would have solved it. But they I think they should think about how we can create a more consolidated capital market. Uh it could be that we should have a European stock exchange or Nordic stock exchange or at least some some kind of consolidation of the of the capital market. Another another opportunity could be to to leverage that we have a lot of pension funds in Europe. We have a good tradition for kind of both public and private pension funds. And a lot of these money is today invested in the US. Uh and if we instead of investing all the money in the US decided to kind of invest just a tiny part in the in European companies and startups, I think they would that would solve a part of the problem. >> Uh I've been hearing a lot that Copenhagen has a strong deep tech quantum focus. Why is it that? Why Copenhagen specifically? >> [clears throat] >> That's true. Uh and I think we have a strong heritage from from Niels Bohr. So, there's a strong tradition uh of of quantum research both at the University of Copenhagen, but also at the Technical University of Denmark. Uh there's a strong tradition for kind of computational science and mathematics and physics at both institutions as well. So, we have a very strong kind of talent base and basic research foundation. Then on top of that, we have private funds uh like the Novo Nordisk Foundation that is actively supporting investments in quantum research and quantum scale-ups. On top of that, we also have public funds or partly public funds like IFO, which is also supporting the the scale-up of quantum. And that, of course, is is because we have the strong base and these these institutions really see the potential in kind of staying ahead or at least in the forefront of the race when it comes to quantum technologies. >> As a development director, I imagine you getting talked to and contact with a lot of stakeholders. Uh which would you say that are your main tasks or the more value tasks that you you do in your job? >> I think rightly talking to a lot of stakeholders, that is that is that is really important. Uh trying to to to bring them together to to work together to to pull in the same direction. I think that's part of what I do. Back to this partnership of Innovation District Copenhagen, that is really about about uh kind of gathering people, important stakeholders around the table uh having the difficult discussions trying to put aside uh personal agendas and and have, you know, one common or at least a few common uh agendas and have one common direction forward. >> And what is the most challenging part about these tasks? >> I think I think there's a lot of challenges to that task. There's There's uh basically to to make sure that people agree because there are many opinions on what is the right way forward. Uh and I think I think to be open to that dialogue and that discussion and still finding some common ground where everybody can see that their kind of interests and opinions are reflected. Um and to move forward in that direction. I think that that's that's the difficult part. So, there's a lot of talking. It's kind of a lot of visits, a lot of a lot of good dialogues. >> What's the vision of two of the next 5 years for IDC and also for the city of Copenhagen? >> Yeah, so the so the so the ambition of of Innovation District Copenhagen is really to be a a key a key innovation hub in Europe. To be kind of known as as a hub for for life science and quantum technology. A place where people and investors go to to go both work, but also to invest and to to grasp opportunities within that innovation space. And then in some of that, it's also to to develop a kind of a new city area, a new part of the city that is interesting, is inspiring, is a place where people living in Copenhagen and people visiting Copenhagen want to come and see what what what goes on. They want to come and eat in nice cafes and restaurants. They want to come and see nice architecture, maybe nice exhibitions or art, meet each other. A part of the city where you want to be because this is where the cool part is. >> Okay, then last question. Could you tell us a lesson for deep tech entrepreneurs that would like to make something big? >> Yeah, I think I think I think there's there's as from an experiential point of view, very often you focus on your technology and your science. There's it's equally important to focus on the business. Uh and I think I think many entrepreneurs underestimate that part. And I think uh if you are a scientist or if you are a kind of technical expert, I think really try to ally with someone qualified in business and have the right business mindset because the two things goes hand in hand.

AI is >> [music] >> that it's most powerful when it amplifies human decision making and not [music] replace human decision making. Often times what people say and what they actually show [music] are very different. We recently did a project for a large American chain and we talked [music] to over 500 people for them in 5 days. At the end of the day, I think that people [music] don't actually care that you're building AI. What they care about are the [music] outcomes. But there's really no playbook of like, "Hey, like at this point you need to bring more people on, [music] right?" What AI is today is a ginormous data [music] set, massive compute, and then you throw a large language model [music] on top of it, right? And that's why it's very good at convincing us that it knows what it's talking about. Uber's [music] uh was it COO was like, "Yeah, you know, like we we burned through like all of our token budgets in the first quarter of our >> [music] >> the entire year." The new generation of people, younger people are also realizing like, "Hey, like this might actually cause us to stop being able to think, right?" Even they're saying like, "We don't want [music] to use AI in in our class." It disappeared at the like literally 2 days [music] before we were going to have everything signed. So, >> Hello, I'm Julio. What's your name and what do you do? >> Uh my name is Lenny and I am the founder of company called Convo. Uh that's getconvo.ai and Convo is a AI powered voice interviewing platform that allows user researchers and market researchers to scale and do different types of research that they couldn't have done before, right? So, we can now interview hundreds or thousands of people at the same time. Whereas in the past you would have to do one-on-one interviews. So, that's what we kind of enable. >> So, tell me a bit about who is your ICP or your or your client in in for your company? >> So, right now our ICP that we've been working with are, you know, large retailers that have to really understand why people buy different things for their homes and, you know, their motivations, how they decide to buy different items, and that kind of stuff. Uh and, you know, this is essentially I think people who are in the research and insights departments, right? So, we've done a variety of different industries. Right now we've kind of been focused on this, but we've also done work for real estate companies, right? That they want to build new buildings and stuff, so they want to understand like, "Hey, what kind of amenities do people want?" And, you know, what are the different types of, you know, features and things things they want inside their house. So, we've done big research projects for real estate companies as well. Um and we've also done research projects for even the Dutch pension fund, actually. So, um so yeah, we we we do a lot of different things, but like essentially that needs primary data where you interview people, that's where we can actually help a lot. >> How did you came up with this problem? How did you start the HomeBinder? >> Yeah, so it started when I was working at Miro, and I was a really early employee at Miro. We didn't even call Miro yet, actually, at the time. And I ran new user growth for them. So, I had to really understand our users to be able to kind of build the right programs and, you know, [clears throat] develop the right features and things like that that would address their needs. So, I had to do a ton of my own user interviews myself and user research myself, right? And I think [snorts] that throughout all that, I felt like we were always making product decisions on very thin data. And what I mean by that, right, is it didn't matter which method we chose, whether it's user interviews or surveys, if it was user interviews, I only was able to talk to maybe like 10 or 15 people for each product feature. If it was If it was surveys, I could send out hundreds of surveys, but then I lost the kind of the depth that I got from talking to people. So, yeah, I kind of did some research to look for solutions for that and you know, there were a lot of competitors. We have a lot of competitors out there. >> [snorts] >> But, I think what kind of sets us apart, right? And what's at the core of how we've built the company is that we believe that AI is at its most powerful when it amplifies human decision-making and not replace human decision-making, right? So, everything that we build is built around the researcher and how we can actually enhance what the researcher does, right? And we keep the researcher at the core of the most critical parts of the research process, right? So, for example, you know, setting up a discussion guide, right? Like, what are the right questions to ask and what are the things to probe for, right? That stays with the researcher. Uh doing collaborative analysis, right? The researcher is also kind of in control of all of that, right? So, those kind of very important human bits, we leave that in make sure that we keep that with the researcher. >> Are there any specific techniques that researchers use that now you amplify with Combo AI? >> I would say that one of the things that we're able to do is now we've turned qualitative data to we we can do so much, right? That you can actually use it in a representative way. And what I mean by that, right? Is in the past you would talk to 10 or 15 people. And I've been in so many meetings with exacts, right? Where it's like, "Oh, hey, like, what percentage of people, you know, liked the pink button?" Or something like that, right? And I'm like, "Well, I talked to 10 people, so I don't know if we can use this data this way, right?" But now, because we can talk to hundreds of thousands of people that and the the sample size is so big, >> [snorts] >> we can actually confidently say, like, oh hey like, you know, 75% of people actually like that pink button, right? So, I think that's one thing, right? And I think the other thing is we've also democratized some of the more difficult parts of research that you couldn't have done before kind of on your own, right? So, we enable what are called mobile ethnographies, and this is a really cool type of research that in the past would be extremely expensive because essentially, you know, you're you're kind of like living in the home of a person, right? Uh and and this comes from, you know, academic research. You know, we in in in business world kind of do, I would say, ethnography lights, uh but in the past like a research project like that would cost you $250,000 for 2 weeks or something like that, right? Now, because we have AI and we can interview all these people using AI and use the AI to do all this type of moderation, uh we can, you know, finish complete a project, you know, for 10 10 times cheaper, probably. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, >> how does it work? >> Um so, for the mobile ethnography, how it works is essentially, we do we do a few different things, right? So, beyond just like a regular interview, and where this becomes very powerful, right? Is that if you do just a regular user interview, for certain things you end up priming people into thinking about different events, right? So, a good example of this is Budweiser actually in the US did an ethog- ethno- ethnography, rather, uh because if you do user interviews, people start to think about drinking events, right? Cuz so, they're like, oh like I drink at weddings or parties and things like that, and they don't think about the the non-drinking events where they also do actually grab a drink. So, they ran ran an ethnographic study, and what they realized was that Americans, in particular, really like to grab a beer when they're doing yard work. So, excuse me. So, what they did was they released smaller cans of beer, so you would finish it while it was still cold. So, that you wouldn't have any warm beer kind of left over. So, that was like something that you I don't think you would have been able to surface with a regular user interview, right? So, how we actually enable this is using AI. We will actually talk to a group of participants. And it really [snorts] kind of depends on what they're trying to understand, right? But, at the core is like we will ask them different questions each day, right? We'll have like for example, if we >> Is AI the interviewer? >> Yeah, the AI will do the interview. Um, and there's also tasks that we actually have the users complete as well. So, it's the interview. We also can actually have them record videos of their surroundings, right? So, if there's specific things we want them to record, we have them record that and also take photos. And where this becomes extremely powerful, too, right? Is because often times what people say and what they actually show are very different, right? So, how they describe themselves might be very different from, you know, the artifacts that you get like the pictures or the videos or anything like that. So, so then you can really start to surface out these different tensions that people have. And for companies who are selling different products and things like that, it's actually really good for them to start to be able to understand like, "Oh, hey, like you know, maybe, you know, you don't sell a minimalist uh uh you know, people might describe themselves as as minimalist, but maybe they have a lot of stuff. And, you know, instead of saying like, "Hey, we can give you this minimalist nice lifestyle." It's like, "Hey, we can give you storage solutions, so you can put your stuff away." Right? So, that you can seem like you're a a minimalist even though you have a lot of stuff. So, it's stuff like that. I'd say. >> Interesting. So, how does it work for my understanding is through a mobile app or or any kind of other tools? >> It's is the web app, so you can do it on desktop or on mobile, yeah. >> Well, there's essentially a lot of input devices like a audio, video are connected. >> Yeah. >> And uh Convoy AI translate all that information well, before agreeing on a survey with the researcher and translate all the information into tangible outputs >> Exactly. >> that finally you can reproduce uh >> Yeah. >> massively because before it cost a lot, right? >> Exactly. So, in the past like you you wouldn't be able to do a large ethnographic research in without paying tons of money because you need to essentially you would have to have like moderators talk to people, right? One-on-one, right? So, at most you might be able to get like 25 people or something like that, right? We recently did a project for a large American chain and we talked to over 500 people for them in 5 days. >> Well. >> Yeah. >> Well. And what challenges have you found during the whole process of building this company? >> I think some of the challenges I face are more you know, around I would say that here's this is following, I think. One of the big challenges I think when you're building in AI is that something that seems very novel today could be very archaic and old tomorrow, right? And a great example of this is you know, 2 and 1/2 years ago when I started building this I spent a lot of time and effort making the AI conversation cuz we use voice AI as part of it, right? And that's that was like at the time that was a differentiator from our competitors. Our competitors use chat or they use kind of like a walkie-talkie like you push to record. So, I made it like full duplex and we try and we reduce that latency so it could feel like a natural conversation like you and I are having right now. So, I spent tons of effort doing this, right? And, you know, I think initially it was pretty cool. Like people saw this and they're like, "Oh yeah, that's pretty neat. I can see ourselves using this." And then OpenAI, like 6 months later, came out with their multimodal model, right? Which then like this just became a natural thing. Like I'm I'm we're just like, "Okay, well, now we just we spent all that money of like time and effort on this." Uh but So, I think things like that uh are challenges, obviously, but the the the tech is just changing so fast, right? That you sometimes are like, "Oh well, I spent all this time on this." So, you know, I think the the lesson there is, you know, And and I think it's good because we're still a pretty small team of like six people, that we can adapt to these changes relatively quickly. I think the other thing that is a challenge, right? I would say is that I think that the when it comes to AI, right? I I I a challenge and and I think that it's important, right? Is the at the end of the day, I think that people don't actually care that you're building AI. What they care about are the outcomes, right? So, what is it that you can actually deliver for me, right? And, you know, that's the insights and that kind of stuff, right? That we can deliver to them. They don't care that it's an AI doing the interviews. They don't care, right? It's like at the end of the day, it's like, "Hey, this is the output and this is what I can present to my stakeholders. This is how you're going to save me time or allow me to do different research that I couldn't do before." And I think that's really important, right? Is that like we don't have to keep, I think, telling people like we're building this AI company, right? And and I think that dovetails into the next piece, which is the trust, right? Because I think at this point, everyone knows, right? These things just lie all the time, right? They They hallucinate. They make stuff up, right? So, you know, for us something that is, again also at our core, right? Is this trust piece, right? So, everything that we do is as transparent as possible and as explainable as possible, right? Like those are kind of core tenants for us, right? So, every insight that we deliver to our customers has evidence attached to it, right? So, whether it's an image, whether it's a quote or like a still from the video, right? We show them like, "Hey, like if we tell people like, 'Oh, hey, like uh 90% of the people have beige rooms or whatever, right?' Well, we can show them like every single picture, right? Like, "Hey, like look at this. You can see all the photos here of all the rooms, right?" And I think that helps kind of build that trust to so so that they can just kind of know that like, "Hey, like you this thing is not just making something up." And And I think that's also really important. So, I think those are some challenges from like a building an AI perspective. I think the other part of building a startup, I think that's challenging, is it's hard to Excuse me. It's hard to know when to bring additional help on, I think, right? Cuz there's no there isn't like there's there's a lot of playbooks for like, "Oh, hey, like this is how you build your pitch deck." And, you know, this kind of stuff, right? But, there's really no playbook of like, "Hey, like at this point you need to bring more people on, right?" So, I think kind of figuring that out is is is is very challenging. It was very challenging for me, at least, right? Cuz I felt like you know, "Oh, I can do everything myself, right?" Especially, you know, using AI and stuff like that. Make things a lot simpler for myself. But, then at the same time, it's like you actually can't do everything yourself, right? Like there's only so much time in a day, even if you have AI like doing different thing different tasks for you. You can only do so much. And then there's also the context switching, as well, right? So, if I'm spending all my day like mornings like doing product work or or engineering work, it's hard to actually switch gears and then move into to do sales or marketing and that kind of stuff, right? So, um yeah, I think it's kind of like that that part is tricky and and you also have to kind of balance too. It's just like, "Hey, like I don't have a lot of money, right? Cuz like I'm bootstrapped. So, like I think that also makes it tricky of like, "Oh, okay, like do I really want to spend I don't know, 2,000 euros a month or you know, if I'm if I'm lucky, right? Like if I can get someone to believe in the dream and I'm only paying 2,000 euros a month then I'm lucky, right? Uh and I I think that's that's also part of the trickiness of like, "Hey, like when do I bring that person on uh to I guess accelerate and amplify the work that we do." >> Interesting. Yeah. How how do you see the world in the upcoming years with these AI and advancements that we are having in the coming years? >> Yeah. Um I think if I'm being honest, I don't think that I don't think that we are going to reach AGI with AI in its current form. >> [snorts] >> Right? Cuz at the end of the day, what we have today, I think the intelligence piece is a bit of a misnomer, right? Cuz what AI is today is a ginormous data set, massive compute, and then you throw a large language model on top of it, right? So, it's this predictive model that kind of like understands human language, and that's why it's very good at convincing us that it knows what it's talking about, right? >> [snorts] >> But, I [clears throat] think we're also starting to see that like just throwing more compute at this is not actually solving this problem, right? Like when we went from the first public release of ChatGPT to um uh was it three? The three >> 3.5 >> Yeah, 3.5 or whatever. what >> so. >> Like that was a huge jump, right? From the first one and then you're like, "Wow, this is incredible." But then when we went to four, it was like >> Wow. >> Yeah, but then now we're seeing like it's like that that we're not seeing these giant leaps anymore, right? Like sure like on some benchmarks or whatever, it can code better, it can do this or whatever, but I think we're also starting to see too even at companies, right? Like, you know, like last week Uber's uh was it COO was like, "Yeah, you know, like we we burned through like all of our token budgets in the first quarter like of our the entire year." Right? So, now they've restricted you know, each engineer they can only spend like $1,500 I think a month on on tokens. But the problem, the other problem is they're like, "Yeah, we burned through all these and we're not actually shipping any faster, right? Like, we're not actually producing better outcomes for our customers, right?" And I think I think the issue there, right? Is and I and I'm noticing this myself too, right? Is that I'll use like if I'm not writing the code myself, if I'm doing prompts or something like that to to to generate the code a lot of times I'll have it generate like four different versions and I'll be like, "Oh, I like this little piece from here. I like this piece here." So, you're actually like you know, in a way you're sure you're you're you're you're you're you're able to produce code faster, but then like your output time is still probably the same because now you're like picking and choosing from like all these different versions, but then that's also why your token costs are like so high, right? >> And also everybody uses four anything. So, they I think we are we're using it, right? >> Yeah, [clears throat] yeah. I think I think that's the other that's the other part too, right? Is that I think that they're very good at convincing us that it can think and you know, it really it really kind of doesn't think, right? Um and I think there are a lot of I would say there's a lot of danger there, right? Like I think that with for example, Google's announcement like was last week, right? Where they're like, "Hey, we're going to do just basically all AI results." I think that's very dangerous, right? Because I think that part of you know, humans being able to think critically, right? Was like you know, if you Googled something, you could look at the sources and be like, "Okay, like this is actually trustworthy and this makes sense. So, I'll like I'll read this or whatever." Or I won't read it cuz this doesn't make sense. This is silly, right? But now, like if you're kind of replacing all that and it's just giving like an AI result, then you're kind of like, "Well, I don't know where this is coming from, right? Like it could be it could have been like on the 10th page of the serp and somehow like the AI is like picking this up and surfacing this." I think that kind of stuff on a social level is is very dangerous. Um so, hopefully we can figure out some guardrails on how we can you know, protect ourselves from that and you know, we're even seeing different things in in education as well, right? So, my partner is a is a is a professor actually at at a university. And one of the things that she's noticed is what what's actually interesting is she said the new um the new class this year actually was like, "Yeah, we don't want to use AI on on any of our stuff." Um cuz like the >> What does she teach? >> She teaches busi- uh international business and yeah, yeah. So, she's in corporate governance. So, well, that was really interesting, right? Is like I think even the new generation of people, younger people are also realizing like, "Hey, like this might actually cause us to stop being able to think, right?" Even they're saying like, "We don't want to use AI in in our class. Um whereas, you know, like I think the last 3 years like a lot of people use AI. Um and what she noticed is that the people who rely really heavily on AI have a really hard time actually like they might be able to produce work that looks really nice. But then when you ask them you know, very specific questions or whatever, right? They have a very hard time actually explaining those concepts, right? Because it's convinced you like, "Oh, this is the right answer." right? So, yeah, I think these these these are the things that I think are interesting on a social level. Like definitely like, you know, outside of uh building a startup. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> And you worked in US, right? >> And I worked in the US. I worked in Canada as well, yeah. Yeah. >> And how do you see the startup ecosystem in the US and Europe? There are a lot of critiques. Europeans ourselves, we critique a lot of our ecosystem when we compare to to US. >> I think I think there's there's there's a few I think differences that I've I've noticed, right? So, I think the first one that I've noticed here, at least in the Netherlands, right? Is it's very expensive to set up a company, right? Like it cost me over 2,000 euros to set up my BV, right? So, I imagine, you know, if I was just out of university like that's super expensive. Like I And like even if I asked my parents, that's like a lot of money, right? Like it's like, you know, 2 grand is not not nothing, right? In the US and Canada you can start a company for like 200 bucks, right? Like $200 is a significantly easier ask of your parents. Like, "Hey, can you lend me $200 to start a company?" Of course, right? Whereas like 2,000 is like, "Oh, wait, hang on a second." right? Like 2,000 is, you know, like that's a month's worth of rent, right? That that you're you're kind of throwing away. So, I think that part already reduces, you know, the number of of people who want to take the plunge to to to start a company, right? And I wouldn't say I I wouldn't say that Europeans are less innovative than the US, right? Cuz like I think that's like one of the big big things like Americans are like, "Yeah, like well, we have way more innovation here, like all this stuff happened here, right?" And you know, like all this AI stuff happened there, right? And that's partially true, I think, right? Because DeepMind was actually originally a European company, right? So, you know, the original kind of AI company was a European company, right? It's just that I think that Europe in certain ways has a lot of different rules and regulations, right? To to protect consumers, right? And to protect civilians, right? And and I think it's I I it's it's tough, right? Because I think as someone who lives here, I'm like I I appreciate that, right? In certain ways, right? That like, "Hey, like I know that at least the government will step in and make sure that my data privacy is taken care of and I'm protected, right?" Whereas in the US, it was just like it's just like, "Okay, like we're going to take your data and do whatever we want with it, and you know, you don't get to say anything about it until something really bad happens, right?" So, I think it's a balance, right? But I think that when it comes to, you know, the next, I think, 10 years or whatever, right? Like I think that we are we are seeing a lot of people actually shift away from the US in certain ways, and perhaps come to Europe or whatever, uh to to build companies, right? And I hope that there are going to be more innovative companies that come out of Europe, because I think that, you know, Europeans have a really good education system, right? Like it's it's it's incredible. You don't have to you don't have to go into massive debt, right? To to to get a good education here, right? Um and I think, you know, there's very interesting problems that, you know, Europeans are solving, right? Like in Amsterdam, for example, in the in the Netherlands, for example, right? Like all the agriculture and these types of very different problems, um you know, they're solving in very novel ways, right? That you know, I kind of hadn't heard about some of these things, like using using fungi to to to to get rid of um >> Pollutants in water. >> Pollutants and things like that in water, right? Like I think that stuff's really cool and I think that's really innovative, right? And I think that what we need is probably like we we need the government to essentially help us from a almost like, you know, if we think about it, right? Like we live in this kind of like more socialist society, right? But like but when it comes to starting your com- your own company, you're kind of on your own, right? There isn't a lot of government help, right? That will you know, give you a bit of like, "Hey, in case this fails, you know, you'll still be you'll still be okay or whatever, right?" Like cuz, you know, for instance, I did like how I did this, like I basically just I quit my job and and have my I and I just kind of funded this myself, right? So, like having some government programs, um that are a little >> [clears throat] >> like more helpful, I think, on the financial side uh would be really powerful for for for European companies, I think. Um but I yeah, I I I don't agree necessarily that like innovation innovative stuff doesn't happen here. I think there are a lot of rules, uh like I said before, and that definitely does slow things down, but I understand the reason behind them. Um and yeah, so it's like a it's it's tricky, right? Cuz do you want to have crazy innovation and no rules to the point where, you know, everyone around is getting hurt by this or, you know, do we like slow down innovation a little bit and you can still do things that are really innovative? Like I think that's the That's the difference that I see um in the I guess the question that we have to ask ourselves. >> Okay. Interesting. Um any lesson that you would like to give to the viewers? >> Um I think the biggest lesson that comes to mind is the the the building a startup is is is a marathon. It's not a sprint. Right? Resilience is such an important part of, you know, building your own startup, right? Like there's Like it's definitely a roller Like emotionally, it's definitely a roller coaster cuz it's just like "Oh my god, we got like a massive contract." And then it's like, "Oh no, actually they decided they didn't want it with us anymore." And it's it's So it's like crazy kind of up and down, right? And and if you cannot kind of handle that, right? Like Like if you cannot kind of try to regulate it so that you don't get too high and don't get too low, then that'll be very difficult for you, right? So I think like I've Excuse me. I know people who, you know, every little thing that happens will have a massive impact on on on them, right? On their life, right? And I think or on their personal kind of well-being. And I've seen that cause people to burn out because you're just like so happy and then so sad and so happy and then so sad. And I don't think that that's a good I don't think you can you can last like that, right? Like I think that's just way too much on our kind of nervous systems and and and that kind of stuff, right? So I think, you know, uh that's all I think part of the resilience of it, right? Like knowing that there's going to be stuff that just doesn't work, right? That just fails really spectacularly. Um there's going to be deals that fall through that are, you know, kind of of no fault of your own, right? Like for us, this this happened like 2 months ago. We had this deal that we were about to sign on the dotted line, and then that company had layoffs, and then our champion was one of the people that got laid off. So, we just like this deal that we worked on for 3 months that would have been, you know, like a a pretty big deal for us. It disappeared at the like literally 2 days before we were going to have everything signed. So, you know, if I were one of my friends who get really kind of caught up with this, I would be extremely depressed. Uh but then I kind of looked at this as like, "Oh, hey, like this is actually This is a good sign like cuz this person really believed in us. Now, we just have to find We've learned so much about this industry. So, I'm going to take those learnings and try and find other people in the same industry and basically explain to them how we can solve their problems for them because now I know, hey, like these are the big pain points that this guy actually wanted us to solve for him, and he was willing to pay us big money for this, right? So, now I just have to find another person in a different company. Like there's so many companies out there, right? So, I think again that's a part of the resilience. I think resilience is like super important. And And then I think actually also just outside of the startup having like a really good support system is really important, right? Like my partner, she is She's incredible, right? Like she is so encouraging all the time. And I think that that helps me actually like on those days where like, you know, where I lost that contract, right? Like it's like it's it's, you know, having dinner with her that makes life like feel okay, right? Um cuz like sometimes you do feel like pretty crap. Um but yeah, having that strong support system I think is also really important. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. >> Well, for the last question, it's not a question anymore. I leave you the camera, and you can ask for a connection or or anything to to the network and the viewers are watching this. >> Cool. So, yeah, if anybody needs help with market research or user research, um we would love to actually show you what we can do. We'd love to, you know, um get you access to the platform and show you the type of analysis and, you know, how you can uh really accelerate and do way more research and different kinds of research that you never thought you could have done before. Sounds good? Thank you so much, guys. Thank you so much.

I was always fascinated by behavior. So [music] how people buy something, how people decide what to buy, when to buy, where to buy. And [music] later on I studied applied data science as well. And I was like, wo, why can we just not just [music] mix those two together? While playing this game or being part [music] of this activity, they leave data behind because it's [music] like a quiz and that is data we use. The biggest source of conflict [music] well the dayto-day task I guess it is the house corporation can see that [music] nowadays um behavior of neighbors are is [music] escalating quickly because of the lower tolerance people have for each other. If there was activity being [music] organized they didn't show up. So there is an intention and action problem [music] because they have intention to actually wanting you know to participate and be more social but when the the reality is they don't participate. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> What's your name and what do you do? >> Hi my name is Na and I run a datadriven behavioral intelligence company. So what we do is that we use behavioral data uh to understand human behavior and with those insights we try to change behavior in a positive direction and this is mainly in the livability context such as littering nuisance um social isolation for instance you know when you walk down the streets um you see like a lot of garbage on the ground and you're like oh my god why don't people make use of the trash cans that are in the streets. Well, that is where we come in because we try to understand the barrier between someone's intention and you know the action because everybody wants like a clean street to live in but sometimes you know the outcome is not always there. So we try to understand the barrier and then with those insights we uh try to um organize interventions that are geared towards changing people in a positive behavior. So changing the behavior in a positive direction I mean >> okay how did you started with this uh problem? How did you solve this problem and what's your background? So I studied um my background is in marketing psychology and I was always fascinated by behavior. So how people buy something, how people decide what to buy, when to buy, where to buy. And later on I studied applied data science as well. And I was like, whoa, why can't we just not not just mix those two together? Not only, you know, to understand behavior in a sense of driving people to buy a certain product, but also trying to understand behavior why people don't act in a certain way or why people um held, you know, held back in doing a certain um >> Okay. >> Um activity or um Yes. >> Yeah. behavior >> and how does the process of data recollection look like? Which kind of data you collect in each of the interventions? >> So we all know that uh behavior is um influenced by various factors for instance timing um weather uh social background and all these things translate into data and these are data that we collect. For instance, um sensory data when it comes to the garbage uh garbage, but also weather. Um what kind of seasons um are there when people trash or litter a lot and which seasons they are they not littering a lot. So that is important data that we collect. but also, you know, the common um focus groups that we organize, surveys, but also um scientific papers that explain behavior. You know, we always um try to also gather data that's already been there when it comes to certain um problems that had to do with littering. So that we can also understand like okay, this is what happened in this area. does it apply to this area? So there's so much data around when it comes to uh behavior and yeah our uh task or what we do is actually gather all kinds of data together to see what kind of correlations there are or what kind of patterns there are. So um in a certain behavior so that we can you know find out the barrier between the intention and the action. And one of uh an interesting way that we collect data is also through our data decoys. So um a data decoy that we use is for instance like a physical installation um like people can take part of or maybe a party. Um for instance last year we created the um what kind of neighbor are you generator. So it was like a big installation where people could actually play a game, live game to understand what kind of neighbor they are and then they had to play a quiz to see if that was is that outcome was actually true. Um so it while playing this game or being part of this activity they leave data behind because it's like a quiz and that is data we use to um yeah to to yeah collect and to understand better what the barriers are. You know, >> is there one factor that makes um urbanization a population livable or with a good and happy living state or would you say that it's depends in the on the circumstances of the neighborhood or on the people living there? What's your take on this? >> It really depends on the neighborhood, what kind of people live there. I mean, no neighborhood is the same. Um and no target audience is also the same. So it's really different and um it really depends also on um the social factors as well but also the um like the economic socioeconomic factors of a certain neighborhood why people do certain things different than other parts of a certain neighborhood. So that is something we uh very seriously take into account and that's why the data that we gather is also really based on contextual data so that we understand you know these are some context that we need to bear in mind for this certain target audience so that we just don't make a certain conclusion um based on you know an over overall um situation. What do your clients value the most when they come to you? >> Um insights in the data uh that we collect. Also uh the organiz organizing of the data because mostly you know a lot of companies they don't really have the data structure in check. They have a lot of data but they don't know how to you know um store it good you know. So uh or structure it well. And that is where we also come into play you know how to structure it well and how to understand what kind of data to collect when you want a certain insight on a certain behavior. Um that is something they don't really um they don't really have knowledge on this because especially the housing corporations their issue or their main issue is not data you know their main um issue is trying to provide a good housing to people but um nowadays you know with also the uh certain uh government rules that are in place for instance that um 70% % of the people have to mix with the 30% with that have a baggage uh as in um vulnerable people. They need to live together and sometimes this can cause a lot of havoc in a certain area because you have very certain target audience have to mingle with another target audience that are more vulnerable. >> This specifically is this for housing, social housing >> or yes. Um but also like uh the Netherlands has a really uh um it's it it has to not only do social housing but also like the infrastructure of uh certain neighborhoods. They always wanted to be mixed with um >> okay different yeah different social classes but also different kind of backgrounds as in um someone who just came out of a uh rehab rehabilitation center or you know so um especially when the Dutch government also reduced spendings when it comes to uh re rehabilitation centers um so that got the spendings on that got reduced so people don't really live. So the vulnerable people don't live in these institutions anymore. They just, you know, they um are obliged to get uh housing in a in a yeah area that well I cannot say normal people live but you know people who have are you know have a less of a package >> than them. So actually controlling for instance is an example but controlling this um issue is kind of harsh for housing corporations. So that they have a you know they have a lot of um things on their plate. So for instance you know trying to find trying to see how they can mingle um the participation um if you know try to organize activities that um you know makes the target audience get to know each other better or connect better. so that social cohesion can actually uh be um more present in the some this kind of neighborhood. So >> what's the biggest source of conflicts in neighborhoods? Um the biggest source of conflict well the daytoday task I guess it is littering that is something that it's like a day-to-day thing for the housing corporations but if you look at the overall complication um which they just don't have a a hand in or is hard to control. It's also the you know the actually the the com the mingling the combining the various target audience together and make it like a place um where social cohesion is you know um a big part because nowadays people are have less tolerance for each other and now they can see that uh I mean the house corporation can see that nowadays um behavior of neighbors are is escalating quickly because of the lower tolerance people have for each other >> which is one of the challenges you have right now. Well, the challenge I have with my company is that behavioral intelligence is kind of a hard thing to sell because it is complicated and it's also kind of new, you know, especially in the social housing setting and uh livability context. I mean data science is I mean it's been done you know um changing of behavior it's also been done but but the combination of these two you know it's something that still needs more uh recognition or needs to be understand they people need to try to understand it more especially in this kind of context we're working in. So the education part of it is it's kind of long and um yeah so that is strictly patience that that that has to come into this. >> Yeah. >> What's the role of AI or LLMs let's say in in a company like yours? How do you use AI? >> Well so we we collect data uh manually. Uh we clean the data. So everything that has to do with data aggregation we do it manually. Um above I guess if you I guess machine learning is part of AI. Some people debate that I don't know but we mostly do machine learning and of yeah I guess it is AI as well. Um but the fact that it's the optimization of our process because we use a certain methodology when it comes to um the issue that we try to attack. It's called the behavioral loophole detection method and um that is actually the whole process of collecting data towards the end product changing behavior and um that is a a method that we're still validating and as soon as that is being validated of course um it needs to be optimized uh so and that is where AI can be a good role plays a big role but for now we do the the data aggregation manually and um and the machine learning aspect as well with the algorithms that we use and the behavioral models that we also use can't be an ocean. Is there a specific design of buildings or ur organizations that make uh neighborhoods more cohesive? Maybe more open spaces or maybe a space for the kids to play. Is there a specific setting that makes families and other No, >> there was no, it really depends on a certain area with a certain context. I cannot just you cannot just say okay we need to make a a playground for the kids so the people behave better you know it it is not just like that because there has been a lot of um interventions activities to actually combat um certain problems in the neighborhood but it don't work because people don't or housing corporations don't have the or municipalities don't have the capacity to actually understand the underlying behavior or do research on the underlying behavior that causes for instance social isolation or um not participating in certain activities because you can create an intervention or create an activity but people might not show up. Well, why is that? So, if people don't show up the intervention it's Yeah. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. It it doesn't work. So it is all about the underlying factors and that is where we come in because we try to fasten the process and also because of our expertise we can do it more thoroughly um and you know take it out of a housing corporation or a municipality's hands because their priorities are their I said that their number one priority is not to they're not a data company. Let me just say that, you know, they're not a data company. Their number one, a housing corporation's number one priority, like I said before, is make sure that people get a proper housing and make sure that the facility is good and clean and so that you know people are satisfied. Um, >> so which is one of your last projects and which changes did your client implement? So one of our recent projects was um focused on science park not the one in Amsterdam but the one in Utre um it's mainly a campus uh where student live but also universities are and research companies are and students study but um the plan is to actually make it uh make more houses there but the people who live there don't actually regard um the place as a nice living area because there are not a lot of facilities that make it a nice and livable area and um all the buildings are a bit segregated. Uh I mean they're different you know they're apart from each other and you think you know as a student you're like oh campus living nice party having fun with various students but this none of it it's there. So their whole thing is like these students were you know they were like hey what's going on we want more activities we want more um you know um facilities that actually makes us feel that you know deliverability is good. So the whole problem was is that if there was activity being organized they didn't show up. So there is an intention and action problem because they have an intention to actually wanting you know to participate and be more social but when the the reality is they don't participate. So that is where our um that is where we came in because we tried to understand what the barrier was and so we did the data collection and um it was really successful um the also because of the data decoy. So the um what I mentioned before the neighborhood generator, what kind of neighbor are you generator? >> You know, this attracted uh 91% more um respondents than a normal um survey. >> Yeah. >> So it was really high. So uh we als we spoke to 25% of the people living there. So it's a really high number because of the engagement fact engaging factor of collecting the data. And yeah we came across very interesting points. I don't know if I can lay it all out here right now, but I guess one of those um interesting insight is that basic safety is great, but when it comes to social safety, it's low. So, people are less um you know, open to just start a conversation, deeper conversations. And the activities that they organized before was really geared to really getting to know each other like you know like a barbecue you know in such a setting >> you need to talk to people you need to you know get to know each other and stuff but the social safety is not high >> so it can be a barrier if there there's going to be activity like okay a game night or barbecue people be like oh hm it's in a kind of a setting you will do with your friends, you know, because you know them. If you don't know a certain, if you don't know people and the social safety is low, you're not prone to actually >> What is this social safety? >> Social safety is the um the aim or I said the social safety is the feeling that you can express yourself >> freely. If you know being being secure with a certain with a conversation that you can express anything you want to say but if you're not like that you know if you feel like you can't express yourself or because you don't know if you're being judged or stuff like that >> you know it is hard and so that's what we you know that was an insight that was really interesting because they are actually interesting interested into actually participating but I guess it it has to it depends on what kind of activation or what kind of event it is and what we also found out is that majority of the people living there their number one hobby is sports mainly jogging. So what if you organize an activity that is mainly focused on a jogging day? the fact that you come together and do one thing jogging and it it is a loweffort um activity because you don't need to you know have like a really deep conversation when you know in in comparison with a barbecue because with a barbecue it's like you take food and then you need to talk but with jogging it's like yeah we're jogging and then a a conversation will flow from there. So that is an interesting insight. Um >> and then they implemented uh >> the implementation is still ongoing. So uh first the insights and uh and there are so many more insights. It's like >> it's so easy or it's so you you like you think like oh my god of course but you don't think of it >> because yeah you have the data you can redirect it and stuff like that. And that is >> what um yeah that is our aim. That is what we do. >> Amazing. Which is one lesson that you would like to give you could give to any other entrepreneur or any human doesn't matter. >> Any human >> any >> I guess to not give up and um also I do sometimes have problems with expressing myself um especially with what I'm doing behavioral intelligence. Um it is really hard for me sometimes to translate the technical stuff into something very easy so that people all everybody can grasp it because it is a very hard subject especially when you go into the depth of it and sometimes I do have a I it's for myself you know that I just want to explain everything but not everybody can understand it um the way um I understand in my head because I'm so into all these numbers and data and intelligence and stuff like that. But for a person who's not in it, person doesn't understand. So I think um practice a lot um and sometimes you know I guess it is a valuable lesson for me um and maybe some other people can also relate to it. Um that Yeah, >> I did understand it. >> You didn't understand it? I did. I did. Oh, you did? Well, that's amazing. [laughter] also have a background in data science. >> Exactly. But sometimes it is a hard cell especially for people who are not in it especially for housing corporations, municipalities you know you really need to be in data science itself to understand you know the process of how to collect data, how to aggregate it, how to clean it, how to standardize it and um what kind of algorithms you need to put on a data to understand uh you know regression uh patterns correlations and then the insights and then from the insights the changing of the behavior, the intervention. So, >> it's an interesting um uh path that I'm walking in. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And last thing, uh any ask for the audience or to the network? Any ask for a connection >> or specific or general? >> Well, for for now, you know, we're really busy uh trying to validate the behavioral loop detection method. So the method we use to actually collect uh behavior no collect data towards changing behavior and so context of on uh housing uh municipal municipalities people who are working in the housing sector or um yeah everybody what has that has to do with livability. Well, I like to reach out to them and see what we can do for each other. >> Perfect. Well, thank you so much for the interview. >> You're welcome.

We are bringing events that are just designed for deeper connection. >> No, I I've never seen such an event before. >> It requires education. It requires um creating the safety in their environment, creating also the intentionality. >> Who take in the end of their life just one time and they are like clear the dirt and this >> they have a cafe where you can go and you can have micro doing uh and pair that with maybe a latte or a tea. an alternative for going out that is just not going to a bar and where maybe they feel they're missing more depth or maybe they're just like exploring just quitting alcohol and they're wondering you know like okay what do I do if I don't drink alcohol how do I socialize >> so we approach our blends very much from uh a culinary background to make sure that they're layered like a cocktail and that there's something yeah something you want to drink socially >> because if I can if I can solve this big problem that is the fear of dying or defer the debt with my passion is like that I won. I won because it's it's the most difficult uh part of the general illness that they have. >> Creating spaces where we can just be connecting with like more authenticity with more ease that you can be networking that you can be having fun, you can be playing, you can be dancing and you can also have depth and you can also go into deeper conversations and you can also be having more ways of connecting that are just not only talking and talking. to appreciate life like to catch moments to to try and to don't ask maybe this is good if I do or not just do it and when I talk with them they have a big list of a lot of stuff that they never done >> regrets >> yeah and a lot of regrets too I was saying and uh I I wish that people can enjoy life just these cameras around and I'm so desperately >> Oh, they are good. Yes, we just got to the intention corner to connect with ourselves and tap into our intention for the night. Um, what do we want to feel? What do we want to experience? And then we're going to write our intention on a postcard. Post P post P post P post P post P post P post P post P post P post P postit. >> Yeah. >> And then we're going to post it in the in the wall. Welcome, welcome, dear ones. For the ones who have arrived, you're very welcome to join us at the dance floor. You already know your body a bit. >> The best cocktail. >> The best cocktail. >> No, that depends because we have two cocktails. The state flow, it's more the energy of water, so more cooling down and refreshing. And we have the second one, Fuego, and that's more fiery. >> Okay. >> So, you can choose where you >> So, that those are the two cocktails you have. Okay. Depends on the how you're feeling, I guess. >> Yes. Yes. So, what do you need? Do you do you need more fire to open up or do you need more cooling down to ground and relax more? >> Okay. >> So, it depends. >> So, what's your name? >> Zab. >> And what do you do here? >> I'm a spaceholder. >> A spaceer. And how did you get to this uh this event, this organization that does this event? I was um joining Leila and Bart's events for years and uh yeah we are friends also. So they invited me I think one year ago or something to this event and since then I'm coming to space every now and then. >> What do you think is unique about this event? >> It's very unique. There's a lot >> everything right. Is there any any other person doing something like this? H. >> Is there any other person doing something like this? >> No, I I've never seen such an event before. >> It's brilliant to have a microing event, >> like a party. What is the thing that you most like about this this event? >> That we're not drinking alcohol or taking drugs, but we are taking macadamones, um, mushrooms, truffles, uh, which I love to do do in my day-to-day life sometimes, every now and then. Uh, but then this is in a social setting. Uh, and it it brings a collective experience. Uh and I think yeah it was really fun and enjoyable. >> How did you get to to this event? >> Because I really like psychedelics. Yeah. >> Find it very very powerful powerful tool. So I really love using it. Really connects myself with nature with with people and with myself. So you you use them for internal trips and discover more about yourself >> like both of them like sometimes really internal internal and other times I feel like really going external. >> Okay. I think I'm not I'm sorry. the spicy one. No. >> So, tell me a bit about yourself. What's your name? >> Yes. My name is Daniel Figucho. I'm a doctor and I'm specializ in paliative care. So usually I work with people at the end of the of the life. Usually people enter their cancer or illness that there isn't treatment for that. I don't work in the hospital but we go in the house of each patient that's the bed and I build a team with n psychology or physiootherapy and all what the patient need or who occupy about the jenna for example or the patient and we stay with them until the end now is 2 years that I'm studying figures uh >> can we go in there? >> Yes sir. the music is a bit loud. >> Yes. Yes. We can go here. Now is 2 years that I'm studying psychedelics and uh and I think that is uh is a the period of the reborn of psychedelics in medicine uh because before the next song like the was legal after became illegal and now Trump for example want to take again the psychedelics in Italy where I live is totally different it's illegal and now by an association that the name is Luca Gooni. We are trying to take back this uh this abidio in psychedelics to help people uh to the end of life because people that will ask uh for example we have a patient that want to to do theia but when they take doses of high doses of psilocybin they feel like connected with all the cosmo with all the world with the universe and past this fear of that and that's why I'm here doing this amazing experience tonight and and I knew you also was a pleasure. So your investigation essentially you have discovered that psycho sibling helps >> yes >> cancer patients to be on peace >> when they are facing death >> is is true who stay bad is sick has an illness has symptoms that are physics one for example uh pain um pain and um there are a lot of type of pain for example there is one pain that is the neuropathic one that come from the spine and you treat with drugs all these symptoms physics but for the uh psychological part you can treat every time with drugs the common SSRI you need uh exclusive like to treat with mushroom or with psychedelics and now is the period of reborn because in France they accept now the ketamine um here is legal. I mean it's something really really important for me. We're going to see a way for psychedelics now like >> uh no they will will uh will will be a common use in few years because uh the research that now we are doing or the research that already my colleague did are super super good like uh there are a lot of benefit just benefit uh me I'm concentrate for the end of life because who use CBD for depression for example People need more time, more goals uh who take in the end of the life just one time and they are like free of the death and this. >> Is there anybody else doing similar research in for the and for the end of life or yours is you? No, no, no. For the end of life, uh there are in America, in Switzerland, I think, but uh in Italy, just because it's illegal, I will be the first I will be the first doctor that treat the first patient to the end of life. And we're going to see how it work. >> Why did you started in this journey? Why why do you do it? uh ending because if I can if I can solve this big problem that is the fear of dying or the fear of the death but my passion is like that I won I won because is is the most difficult uh part of the general illness that they have that put them sick. I have passion that around for example now is we are going to the summer period so it means that there is light until 10 11 in the night in some part of the world for example when we pass from the summer period through the winter one that already at 5:00 p.m. is dark outside. They start to breathe in different way there. They have this ania this anxiety crisis that increase a lot. But with the mushroom, you solve everything for just one time and it's amazing. >> One last thing one lesson that you have seen from all your experiences. >> Oh, I can say what I live each day. Each day I leave people that they was saying good after bad illness, bad cancer and they they flow. So uh what I can say to appreciate life to catch moments to to travel to don't ask maybe this is good if I do or not just do it. And when I spoke with them they have a big list of a lot of stuff that they never done. >> Regrets. >> Yeah. and a lot of regrets too. I was saying Tambian and uh I I wish that people can enjoy life just this >> and one does ask and ask people are going to watch this link in YouTube any connection that you would like to get from here researchers or any >> uh yes they they can watch what I told you that in Netflix there is this I don't know how Sarah in in Spanish uh but is how to change your mind in English in Italian Yes. And the second episode is about the sales bill and this exactly what I'm I'm going to go to do now proximally. >> So you would like to be connected with people that's interested generally. >> Yes. Know more with the with with the researcher I mean do an good network >> network of researchers in this. Okay. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Perfect. >> Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, I I You I I I Are they Bow down. Welcome everybody and the speakers will give you guys the space to introduce yourself and everybody for sitting here for learning something. Um today is also the nature of our party but we want to really talk about it and the topic is psychedelics and conscious relating. Something very powerful that plant masons and do is that they let us see patterns very kind like they bring the [ __ ] show to the table very easily right so it's almost impossible to not see them then what do we do with that right how do we create that change I did psychedelics recreationally at first and did not benefit at all from it until I started to spiral out of control and had to face all my demons >> right talking about how are we relating cuz part of me where feels that last part was not actually coming from how I'm relating to that was my mind talking >> resonance and respecting both what I feel as receiving the other one and then see what we can create Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Hello guys. So tell me a bit about you. What who you are? What do you do? >> Hi, I'm Sara. >> Hi, I'm Adrian. >> And we're part of Happy Tea. And we make adaptogenic tea blends prepared with micro doing. And this is so that it's also more delicious and also sharable. >> Yeah. Because the truffle flavor usually is not really good, right? >> Yes. If you're familiar with truffles, you know, they don't taste very good. So, we make sure that they do taste good >> and make sure that it's a proper experience as you're enjoying your micro doing. How did this started? How did you guys started this? >> So, this really started from my personal journey of giving up alcohol and looking for something new. I was making experimenting in my own kitchen making these tea blends at home and then started inviting friends over during co >> I was one of those friends and my background is being a chef and a food developer and so I was able to be very like oh why don't you add this and this ingredients and that was very quickly like oh let's let's actually like join forces and we had the both technicals uh to go through. So, we approach our blends very much from uh a culinary background to make sure that they're layered like a cocktail and that there's something Yeah. something you want to drink socially. >> Which challenges do you have right now? >> Right now, I mean, we're trying to normalize this and make this Yeah. a normal thing. And it does take a long time to do that. And also, our society is not built for that. And so we still have to push a lot of boundaries and work in a lot of gray zones and yeah try to normalize something that is heavily stigmatized. >> And is there any lesson that you would like to give to other people that are watching this or any any learning that you received from your journey? >> I mean our message is really just to be open to try something new and be open to inviting your friends to try something new. Um >> to get the knowledge that you don't have. I think a lot of what we do is education because people don't really understand what they're going to be drinking and tasting and through that actually we reach in so many people that they're like oh this is actually very approachable and very understandable. >> Yeah. Once you know >> once you know it's so much easier like the there's not mystery there. >> Hello guys here we are with Leah one of the co-founders of Parad exchange. >> Hello. >> Nice to see you Mia. >> Nice to see you. Thank you for an invitation. >> So we went the other day to Parad Exchange and we tested all the cocktails. We saw what where they were doing the whole concept and now we have Leah the co-ounder so she can explain us a bit more about the concept why they they started it and what's the origin. >> Yeah. Well, I was really glad you were there and you could experience this new way of going out for the very first time. And yeah, the origin is there. We never planned to do like and originally how we are phrasing this part exchange is more like the bigger organization and the marketing parties are the concept and the idea where we are bringing events that are just designed for deeper connection and when I say deeper connection is maybe like what we went or more a bit of the origin was quite unexpected. Um both Leila me we have been uh for quite some time working with plant medicine and in particular with micro doing as a tool for transformation and for me in particular has been always as something to be doing in a more ceremonial setting right so with more like in a bigger dose or with myself more for mental improvement or wellness and cognition. So I never really thought about okay like putting that like in another context that would be social. I I never really thought about it although of course I have used that myself but not necessarily with a lot of people. Uh so we came across after we organized a big conference some years ago we wanted to yeah we were just wondering how would it be you know we were having a lot of speakers around psychedelics and how that can actually play a role in particular for intimacy but also for connection that was kind of like the big spectrum of everything and we started to ask ourselves okay how would this be to be putting that on Yeah. like in real time, you know, in play. So, you know, not just only talking psychedelics, but actually doing them, but not doing them just like, okay, let's get everyone, you know, like doing that. No, when we speak about psychedelics, there are a lot of responsibilities, right? It's not um it's not something you can just pour into the world and, you know, hope that can go well. No, it requires education. It requires um creating the safety in the environment, creating also the intentionality. We're also working with plants and well in this case plants. We don't work with substances because everything is legal here in the Netherlands for working with truffle. So we're working also with medicines that they carry thousands of years and they carry also they have been keeping uh like for different um cultures and Mexicans you know like I have seen also what that play like historically into there's been a lot of oppression from this. So there are like a lot of things that are layered when we are working with this that we need to put in the right context and give the right education. So with all that into account that's how we created a parties. Um so we met Sara which is also founding happy tea and she was one of the p she's one of the pioneers still they have the first micro doing tea uh shop in Amsterdam. They have a cafe where you can go and you can have micro doing uh and pair that with maybe a latte or a tea. So I think for me it was just also like finding out right like how it is to be creating this business where I could see also her vision and I could really feel totally like that feels really a way that could be aligned. So we gave it a try. Long story short, we had the first party and it was more like a networking and we saw just people, you know, coming looking to actually meet other people maybe in a psychedelic scene or they were psychically curious and then it was just like like a breathing of everyone was just so relaxed around each other and suddenly it was more like feeling that people could really be more themselves like in in different levels. So it was almost like it started actually more like a social experiment you know like an experiment of you know how would it be you know we were wondering you know how would it be just not to talk but to also try it out but also put the right setting and also create you know like the guidelines that can make it safe and you know that can make it intentional everything and then we had happy tea and you know like there were like a whole you know different points in the in the orchestra for it to be playing well right and it played fantastic and it was a very insightful experience to see also the effects that has happened for people uh which of course Sarah had researched a lot and she had been also organizing these sort of parties already for longer time so you know there was already like quite a few experiences but for us of course like more the core of this hasn't been necessarily only focusing the parties on putting that you know like you need to come and you need to take micro dosing a lot of people can come and sometimes they don't even take micro doing so sometimes they are just coming and they want to find maybe an alternative for going out that is just not going to a bar and where maybe they feel they're missing more depth or maybe they're just like exploring just quitting alcohol and they're wondering you know like okay what do I do if I don't drink alcohol how do I socialize what could be healthier alternatives or maybe there's also people right like I know all the other healthy alternatives because I was that was my own story as well with going a lot to more conscious clubbing and conscious parties um more spaces where maybe there was a deeper way of interacting without words or maybe like totally sober and I love those spaces and I highly recommend also people trying that out. Um and we also do some events that are told like in more in that direction but we were still kind of wondering right like sometimes for a lot of people when they go to these more um so-cal conscious events they could find out like they maybe don't belong there like it feels maybe way too serious or like way too spiritual you know like and there's kind of like this sense of belonging you know where do I belong if I don't belong to bar you know like if I don't belong to you know like the house party if I don't belong to you know the the ecstatic dance you know where where what's my place right and so we were really like finding what is the sweet spot, you know, where we're like, "Yeah, we're missing, you know, you know, like bars also have something special, you know, like, you know, like the the ease, you know, like the chats that you get with someone. Um, you know, clubs also have something special, right? Like having just like let go and dance all night long and you know, like forget about everything. And also maybe right like also expectants have something really special. Wow, everyone's so like in the same frequency. No one's judging you. It's without words. So it's kind of like you know it's not we always say this is not your average party. We always say you know this is not silent space. This is also not going to be your average loud clo uh noisy club. It's it's not also a ceremony but it's also a ceremony. Right. So it's kind of just like putting everything together into space where you can be more of yourself a space where you can be right like when when we go also to networking right also a lot of people network. A lot of people also sometimes they found out like you know we had already some stories of you know they met their partner actually there so like we have more stories of people actually meeting their group of friends there also collaborators. So that's really cool, you know, like all of this happens but without us having the goal that that happens. But what happens many times in social interactions is that we go to a place and we are a bit kind of like I need to perform and especially with partying like it there is a bit of performance anxiety very subconscious for a lot of people like certain way you need to be behaving uh or maybe certain way you need to be dancing right sometimes they're like oh I don't want to dance because you know like how do I dance or maybe you go to the network and it's like oh yeah you know I need to get out cards and I need to meet people and I need to make contact and that just creates like tension and that creates you actually being everything else but probably not yourself. For a lot of people this happens for a lot of people also it doesn't but for a lot of people they come from this energy of you know like who do I need to be instead of actually when we are in our most relaxed state right when I can feel like ah I can be fully me I'm going to be accepted there is nothing that needs to happen I feel the more relaxed I can put myself the more relaxed the environment also brings that part of me the more I can also let go and then then that's where magic happens right like that's where we can have more fun, but that's also where we connect more with people because we are not necessarily trying to get something out of it, the interaction. We're not necessarily trying to look perfect. We're not necessarily trying to do something. And I think that is the essence of what we found out in that first party and which has been just a buildup on the rest of the parties that had come since two years ago of really creating spaces where we can just be connecting with like more authenticity with more ease that you can be networking that you can be having fun, you can be playing, you can be dancing and you can also have depth and you can also go into deeper conversations and you can also be having more ways of connecting that are just not only talking and talking that maybe there is more silence. So that's where we have become also really good with creating also other different areas which also of course micro doing supports connection more a bit into the body into feeling your senses into feeling also more awareness into what's happening your inner world. So that is kind of like more of the the natural consequence of what happens when we when we put also micro doing in a social setting. And how do interactions change from a normal party and a micro doing party? >> I think a lot a lot of ways it changes. Um let me feel into that. I feel it changes in the first thing that's coming is like in the conditioning of how to approach a a micro doin party versus a normal party, right? And I think we have conditioned how we go out like what I was just saying like we come into the club and you know there is like almost like a subconscious way of what we should be doing. We should get a drink. We should get some liquid courage because I'm a bit nervous. You know like what the [ __ ] am I doing here? Oh, I don't know if I really belong here. This looks so awkward. [ __ ] I need to dance. Oh, I like that girl. Oh, right. Like all these things are happening. Or maybe you're heartbroken or maybe you're happy or maybe I don't know. But there are like these conditionings of what I need to do, what I need to do, right? Like how I need to party, how I need to have fun, how I need to go out. So the first thing that happens that is different is we break that. So in a parties we this is kind of more like a process that is not like we necessarily need to tell them. It just like happens naturally. And I think in particular micro doing is very good at um let's say if I go more kind like on the benefits like on a more like health level of also having social interactions with micro doing for instance it also creates new patterns of thinking right so maybe things that you maybe would be doing in a certain way it enhances a deeper neuroplasticity in the brain even if it's in smaller doses what it will be activating your brain is most possibly right it's it's always different for each person and it there are like loads of factors that here you know they should be discussed but in general we just like enhance like a different way of thinking maybe than your usual so what it does it it let's say it creates you new idea so like for a lot of people maybe they come and they're right away like getting into the conditioning like oh you know I need to get a drink you know to get a bit more at ease and suddenly they just realize that's not necessary suddenly they realize like oh right I actually so when they enter we usually propose them to set an intention for the evening. So that is something that brings them also into ah yeah why am I here right like just taking a little pause and thinking yeah why am I coming what's my intention for the evening and if I'm also having this drink what's my intention for drinking it right like so that kind of like rewires a bit different into just like going to let me get another beer you know like into oh yeah what's yeah how I want and they write it down so sometimes you know like we put it also like in a wall so they can see others people intentions and that sometimes it's just more something that they're maybe working through or maybe they just feel you know it's alive in the day you know I want to have connection you know my intention is connection and it's almost like that guidance throughout the whole evening that brings them into yeah what how do they want to experience that so that just right away changes a bit of the way of approaching it from that place of almost like the autopilot of I go and I got a beer you know and then I go and I go to that stage and then I'm here and you know I'm like just like looking and then I don't know what the [ __ ] am I doing here into I'm doing with intentionality Right. So I think that's one of the biggest things that can really get to do for people. So you know it does create changes right like socially it enriches it can enrich so much and of course right like it could go very different for each person but what we have seen in the party right like um is that when we strive to create also a container that has let's say what we call kind of more like the agreements of the space that set a bit more like of the tone of voice and the tone of feeling for the party that does something for people into feeling like oh yeah okay we're on the same page about is oh yeah I don't need to be trying to get something I don't need to go anywhere you know if I want to be you know like I said that in the one of the parties a few weeks ago you know like party your own way like if partying your own way is you need to be for you know following two hours crashed like a potato on the couch and you and that's your party like today your party is just being crushed in a potato does doing nothing not talking with anyone and just you know like you listening to music and being in your happy self that's your party like go for it own it that's parting your way and if parting your way is you are going to be, you know, like like crazy dancing in the dance floor and you know, like interacting with people and, you know, not having a with anyone, but you know, like dancing your ass off and, you know, forgetting about yourself and, you know, like being your crazy self and, you know, like no one's watching you. Do it. And maybe part of your own way. Oh my god, I want to try everything. Oh, so maybe I'm talking here with these guys. Oh my god, the conversation is so good, but now I want to go out to the bonfire and have a look. And then I want to go out and try painting, right? I want to be painting for some hour and then later I want to be dancing. you know I want to try everything party your own way if that's your way of partying tonight like do it so that is what I really feel we can really enrich socially and more than socially like internally for you into just also doing what actually really feels good for you what actually feels um I would say then going back to the question like this is what it does differently into really learning like kind of supporting you to connect also and of course it's not only the micro doing right like it's also the whole set and setting that there has been created you know into how we guide people into the experience that people take into they go into different corners they it's more like an experiential party right like it's an experiential thing >> that is very different than our usual way of partying or having fun where maybe there are no rules but at the same time it's I don't know it could be different for each person exactly there are options >> yeah I like it re your I would say summarize it in this way reveals your true self or your authentic self >> enables you to get deeper connections with people as well. >> Yeah. >> And and yeah, also yeah enables to experiment. Yeah. >> Yeah. Totally. >> I like it. >> And would you say that this kind of parties experiential micro doing parties are for everyone or are there some profiles that uh >> should not go? >> Yeah, definitely. I think they are not for everyone. Um although we want to welcome as much as people as we can. Um so this is where it can get like into there are certain more let's say risks that like in general micro dosing is very safe but in some cases that's where we just suggest not necessarily to be going. So we always disclaim that beforehand and if anyone is maybe more in that on that uh this is not a therapeutic space it's more a space for connection. So that is where we advise just always to go for professionals or maybe just you know try it out like in general microin and in particular silos 7 is very even like done in clinical trials right now there are like so many so much research been done >> yeah there was a doctor researching with cancer patients or psychedelics >> yeah for end of life support yeah and there are like so many research right now being done for depression treatment uh well like anxiety like end of life support like with bigger doses but in particular I feel like now we're in micro do and in particular is setting is more for uh mental health uh so you know like that's to where that would be a whole different story into the results and you know also my opinion on that but uh what do we see is um in general like like our general guidelines are um if you're pregnant or breastfeeding maybe that's not the best setting for you right now like there's still like you know we want to make sure there is research enough you know to be doing that uh also Maybe if you have a history of maybe any um mental illness that goes more into psychosis. Um that is something that we also suggest. Maybe not necessarily maybe the space where you maybe will be right like we don't know that's a bit more unpredictable and u if you're taking SSRI I think that could be maybe something that uh maybe would be better to maybe have the treatment like in general you could be stopping but it's not advised right like that's something you would need to discuss with your doctor. So we shall provide these guidelines into two who would this be not before and I would say those would be the main ones. Um or yeah like I would say if you are in like maybe a crisis state or in a severe trauma I would say micro dosing would not be necessarily like the safest thing for you to be doing. Uh so maybe better get into baseline and then from there take it and explore it. Uh so I would say maybe those cases are in particular maybe needing more of a therapeutic support than maybe a social setting. Yeah. >> Yeah. And what's next in the industry? Amsterdam is regulated but there are uh other countries that are pushing forward to it. Uh US I think they approved recently something. >> Uh what's your take on that? >> Yeah. Well, there's a lot of excitement around this and a lot of tension also in the last years for what's to be happening. Uh the Netherlands is such a gem in that sense. uh where psyocloven has been legal for quite some years uh where there is also a lot of challenges on that you know because it could be used for so many health things and and I also want to put with all of these you know I'm of course putting you all the all the good sides on psychedelics and you know for instance on micro doing of course where like we are aware of like there are lots of things you know where we want to be critical around uh psychedelics and you know like a safe use for them and harm reduction and the same for micro doing so That's something that we do want and we always want to be critical around that and not just put the hype but actually also make the good questions on that. Um, so I say that this is what's happening in the industry, right? Like I don't think it's a market that can go and this is more where it gets a bit more of a thin thing is a very sensitive industry because we're talking about also health, right? Like it works with the mind. Okay. So I think that is something in some way um that I find it mindful that it needs to be taken the necessary steps and that there needs to be more research around things and and yet right like we forget uh sometimes science like ah yeah like we've been trying to you know turn all of these into substances and chemicals and industrialize that and we also then forget right like that they are at the end of the day also plants. that are teachers that they have been guarded for thousands of years by cultures that then we are also playing with you know um with so many more things around you know like we're we need to include also that perspective right like where we need to include also how do we protect those those cultures those the nature how I think there are more questions so so I find that in general like I find it good I find it good there's so much more research I will always be supporting this like we are pro all of this of course because we need that and and yet I feel that it's an industry that needs to be grown with a lot of integrity and with education. Whenever we speak about psychics, it needs to come with education always. >> And what's next for paran exchange more parties different concepts. >> Yeah. But we are working well we are working now on well probably just more our party to refine that and we are obsessed on making the experience for people joining in a way that really just gets like better and better always. So that's more of our core. We have been also flirting a bit with doing more day festival where we can be having um more workshops but we also have more richer education on second league. Sometimes we have like the one you joined with um with the panel. So maybe more workshops around getting to know more around these things uh different tools and also I feel what comes for us is that at the end of the day part exchange and the micro doing part is they didn't start necessarily only around psychedelics and micro doing for us our view is more like micro doing is just a tool right like people want to be in spaces where they can be themselves where they can be uh authentic where they can be connecting where they can be more socially engaged where they can be more heart opened and that Yes, microising is a tool is fantastic and it's not the only one, right? Like there are so many tools we can get the same result. So for us it comes into yeah just continue this movement of you know like uh more spaces of connection beyond the small talk of more depth of more body of more space and that might be coming with more of these parties or maybe other type of events but for now for sure the maybe the festival with more workshops and so that's more in into our into our view >> and any challenges that uh that the exchange is facing right now >> I feel the Netherlands is like such a rich place and people in general like I think in Amsterdam in particular it's a very well-known and uh there are a lot of people you know they had maybe oh my god they had like you know truffle journey or maybe they had therapy with micro doing or something like that and still because it's not yet um so fully known of course there we go into we miss research uh we need also there's stigma around second so I feel that could be more of what we face the lack of information right like misinformation creates you know like um could be maybe shame or stigma or ignorance you know into what it is what it entitles so sometimes for a lot of people maybe when they don't know too much around psychedelics they could feel fear but I feel when there is still shame and when there is still shame because there is this information there is well there is fear and and there are hesitences around also well one of them for instance allowing research and then second um yeah which is what the industry is of course you know been creating into getting more awareness So sometimes we can get to face that like when people don't know too much about that and maybe we're looking for like new locations that could be something into usual they need to be right partners that they know what it entitles that they maybe they have worked with that they they have trust >> um on that and that they maybe they have it has changed their lives right like into the point that they know >> and which is one lesson that you could tell the viewers regarding this journey. Oh. Ah. One lesson I would tell you is yeah, this is what's coming. So, one lesson I would really tell you is become so obsessed about something you love and just share with people. The moment you own your obsession and you just like drive it, you know, like almost like a in Spanish like you know like you like you're just proud of it like you just attract people and you realize suddenly like you know you're not alone. So I would say just dare to be obsessed for the things that you love. Dare to share them. there too, you know, like speak that out, share your story, post it online, write it about it, you know, like tell to everyone. Just allow that really. And I would say you're making a favor to other people like they've been looking for you for years, you know, for days, for months. >> Okay. And last question, any connection you would like to get for Paradigm from Nectra from the >> Oh, that's amazing. Uh, well, we would love to. Yes, we actually have two two ideas. We're still in hunting for um venues and locations. We love trying out new places. Uh so we are always in look for places that would be loving to have and host these sort of events with us. We would love to be in touch with new locations and venues uh that maybe could host from 50 people to 100 people. Um, also if there are people maybe who want to learn more like these benefits or maybe they want to try that out in maybe space and organization where maybe they want to have that maybe as an experience uh as growth maybe it doesn't necessarily needs to be in a party setting but maybe as in the more like in a well-being setting. I feel that micro doing is such a great tool also for enhancing cognition for productivity for creativity. So if there is anyone who maybe wants to be experimenting this rather with their teams or you know maybe like in a setting where they get to know about it like that is also something we would love to offer and share. And the last one is um we have been also actively you know open for any research uh any academics or researchers who want to be having our spaces more as a place where they can also be doing research and see the benefits. You know I think Sarah and happy they're already doing also some research around micro doing and social connection but yeah in we can provide more these are happening on a more regular basis so cyclic researchers are very welcome also to reach us out. >> Perfect. So let's see we >> thank you so much for the interview. >> Yeah likewise thank you for bringing me. >> That was it. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello. What's what's your name and what do you do? >> Jordan and I'm working at the regional development company uh predominantly as business developer and venture developer. >> What does a venture developer and business? >> That means helping startups to develop according to a pathway and yeah helping them set up for success. >> Okay. Which uh kind of projects have supported in in the past? >> That's numerous. So I have a regular call on Thursdays that I for one hour I do a session everybody can call in from the region or or about uh or outside of it and I just tell the talk about the structure on how to get set up for success. >> Did you mention it's called regional development? >> Yeah regional development. Yeah. So we are investor in for the region. Okay. >> Uh we are public publicly funded and what we do is we try to enable transitional companies uh within the region that support uh yeah higher aims. So that's energy transition that's circularity uh digitization that's my personal one uh life science health and then it's food and uh and uh uh food and and sciences around the food. And which kind of sectors startups in these sectors have you seen that progress more? Is there any specific favorite sector for the region? >> Um not not necessarily a favorite. These are actually the our five main. Yeah, these are the five main one and we have uh perh one of those transitions we have people working on the specific topic to develop within the region. So that means uh connecting a lot of people uh connecting entrepreneurs with with institutes that can help them to set up shop or improve their their business. Uh and then the venture development part is where I I particularly work in uh and help my colleagues um but also themselves they will do some some of the work uh to help those companies and startups to set up for success. >> What is the scope of a regional? Does it have a minimum ticket size, maximum ticket size or is it the scope only for the region or can also look? So, so the region, so that's an interesting one, of course, because the region here is uh uh the the province of North Holland excluding uh Ferste. So that's that's a little bit of a cutout carve out for the regional development at Utre, but also it includes the Emiran region of Amsterdam. Uh and that is Leto and Almir also are included in that for some of the transitions. Uh and then when when it comes to the investment part, we do up from 300K up to 5 million. Um and we are always a co-investor. So we do maximum 50% out of out of a round. >> Which kind of partners do you invest with? >> Um multiple. So we can do with any private investor. Uh so that's um that's VZ capital particularly uh but also angels or syndicates. Do a lot of international investors invest in regional uh startups as well? >> Uh yes, well a lot. There's always also international investors that are interested. I mean it's it's up to the startup where they want to find the money. Uh but also sometimes it's strategically interesting to already have a link with with investors from from abroad uh because it helps them also to get entry in that market. And what are the main challenges you see the regional startups have when they start? >> Um I think this is the dominant for every startup. So no matter the region uh and that's the just having that uh the the a proper um what is it a proper definition of the customer uh so a lot of them they start with a solution with a solution in mind and they start developing on that solution. So they like to build uh but in the end I mean you need to sell it to someone. So the way to go is first find a problem to solve and then uh develop a solution for it. And there's [snorts] 95% out of all that start with develop development of a solution. They have an idea in mind. They found a problem themselves or they talk to people who claim to have a problem uh but they never properly challenge that those those people about whether how yeah how urgent that problem is to solve and whether they would be willing to pay for it. How do successful startup sell and distribute their products or services? >> Uh so if you if you know who you're doing it for, then it's relatively easy to find them. So the hard work is first finding that problem uh getting a definition from the target audience that you're looking for. Um [snorts] because it's it's actually you're building a lead list, but you want to make sure that you built um a product for a group within that lead list. So say so it's not a lead list in the beginning. So it's just a group of people you've been talking to. Out of that group you found a group that has potential because they all have similarities in in the problem that they're facing. Uh there's an we call this early evangelist group that's a very small group that has an exactly sim similar problem. Uh they are aware of this problem. They have looked for a solution to solve that problem. They even experimented with with solutions to to solve that problem. Uh and they still have money to spare. And that's another point actually a lot of startups are tempted to give away their product for free in the beginning just to get some traction going but uh this is not traction. >> I know myself. >> Yeah. Well, there there you go. I know myself as well. So I I made the same mistakes over and over. >> What's the typical successful team that a startup can have >> team? Yeah. So yeah, it's it's a minimum of two like Mox actually said today. So he's very happy with the two. two also can generate a little bit of a problem because making a decision that you are confronted with then yeah who who is right. Uh so to have a team of three is helpful. Uh but it also comes at a cost right. So you because you dilute >> yes regarding the team do you think if there are two founders >> do you think one founder should have more equity how much and why when when he's accepted to have more equity? Um so for one if you do a 50/50 then uh and you are just the two founders then it it's problematic. So actually you want to have 51 on 49 and this is something to discuss and of course from a very early stage from the beginning. Um and if you cannot find agreement then yeah probably you're going to be in arguments at a later stage as well. So it's it's either the one with the idea that kicked it off that reached out to the other that already said so somebody else started with it or it's the heavy weight or maybe sometimes you need to acknowledge that someone is way better than you than you are or is better than you are then you know why not grant them the extra percent because I think but this is my personal belief uh you eventually as a founder are working for the company that you started and a lot of people think they work for themselves but you work for the company that you started. It's even formally written in in all the paperworks after you started it. Uh and I think it's super important that that is sort of a personality that you start working for from day one and you should do everything possible to have that person. So the BV or whatever the inc survive >> okay what challenges does the regional development find right now? Um, so there's a lot of initiatives that are trying to kick off entrepreneurship. Um, but there's also a lot of, yeah, pardon my French, but crap to be totally frank. There's a lot of entrepreneurs. Uh, so there's a lot of people who who think it's a lifestyle, just a lifestyle. I think this is a problem. Uh, because it's not a lifestyle. It's a you need to have something in mind that you really want to make make a success and you need to stick to that uh to that sort of the problem. um and not sticking by uh I don't mean like just just have a core focus on it purely because you can only focus on it purely if there's a customer audience but you need to be intrinsically motivated to make that uh get that solution out there in the world >> which is one lesson that you would like to give to the entrepreneurs watching this >> yeah I know that's the the basics talk to customers and if you have if you found and customers I don't mean already starting selling so that's that's actually the that's maybe the they listen. Uh don't start selling from day one. Start asking questions and show an honest interest about the topic. If you have that honest interest, then you will get people to talk. Um because people ask questions uh you know they are interested in you. So you're tempted to give an answer. Uh and if you are uh genuinely interested, people will be will open up and you you get a lot of information that will help you set up a business in the end. >> Nice. And one ask to the viewers, one connection that you as a person or as a partner. >> Yeah. So, so uh please uh be open to be to be helped. >> One connection. >> Maybe it would be a politician that can actually uh remove a lot of the the interference and understand that the interference is actually a problem that is holding it back and just generating more agendas, more researchers, etc. on a topic that's already been researched over and over. So, one person that can move this into action. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for the interview. Pleasure, man.

I had a 15% of survival. Uh I was 2 months in the hospital over a week [music] on intensive care and the first thing that I uh said um when I woke up is I don't want to die anymore. I was born [music] here in the Netherlands. However, my dad was an expat. So we moved around a lot. Uh and that made me very curious about cultures, about changing life, about yeah looking into anything that is different than normal. And within Sony, I did a whole career. Um, and I started there all the way at the bottom at sales support [music] and climbed my way up into a European function in strategy and management. Is it something that you really chose yourself? Are you just doing it on autopilot? And are you happy? Once you're there, you can see the whole galaxy. And I've never seen so many [music] stars in my life. And again, that's one of those small moments that I thought, this is really why [music] I'm living. This feels like I'm alive. People need to step outside of the [music] environment that they are in to experience new things because everything [music] is feeding that monster. There's a process. There's a system. There are tools [music] there. Uh there's enough money to have that. There's meetings. There's people that can explain you, etc. But that also takes away a lot of creativity. But it doesn't have to [music] be perfect. Nobody knows what you're doing. I remember when I was [music] organizing events for Sony for 400 people across Europe in one location. They have no idea what is on the agenda, what is coming next, etc. So why does it really matter people? It's all inside your head and just do what you want to do. [music] That's the most crucial part. Who is in the meeting and do you have a role? If you don't have a rule and it doesn't have a benefit, then tell [music] your manager, I'm not going to be in here because I have other work to do which is more value ad. Right person, right place. So, are you really doing the job that [music] you love? If you do the job that you love, then you do it with passion and you'll do it [music] correct. You're trying to get people to get connected to help each other out to make them grow as a person in their company, getting networks together. That's the [music] same that you should do in a business, right? You should just have a collaboration. I'm not your boss. [music] No, we're colleagues. You know my story. You've heard everything. I think there's two two parts of my story. [music] One is the operational detox and the other one is uh the keynote speaking. I'm very passionate about the keynote speaking, sharing my story, sharing my life. And I would love people [music] to reach out uh for any stage. if it's for 20 people, for 500 people, for 5,000 people, whatever. Um [music] if you're different kinds of organizations, if you're um a corporate, but maybe you're working at the police or you're in a university and you think it's necessary there, just call me um and um I'll show up. >> What's your name and what do you do? >> Hi. Um I'm Oscar. Um currently I'm on a satical uh creating my own startup. Well, two startups to be uh to be honest, but we'll get into that later. Um I was born here in the Netherlands. Uh however, my dad was an expat, so we moved around a lot. Uh and that made me very curious about cultures, about changing life, about yeah, looking into anything that is different than normal. Um so we lived in Germany for 3 years, we lived in the States for 3 years, and then we moved back to the Netherlands. um because my parents thought I needed a stable sort of foundation to have my studies etc. Um I studied commercial economics, international management and that made me also go to abroad to the UK to do one year of abroad studies and after my studies I didn't really want to work. So I was uh a flight attendant for two years and I traveled the world a lot more just to understand a bit of well social socializing but also getting into ah seeing what life really is about. Um but after 2 years I thought okay this is it's nice but I can't really go further. Um I was very ambitious at the time and I thought okay I I'll become purser I do something in the office etc. However the agency the airline agency works very differently. You're just a number and when your number is up you get into the next level. So it's nothing about being ambitious or performing or whatever. it's just if your number is up, you can try and then if you're good enough, then you get that. So I thought, okay, I'm not going to wait for that because that's going to take years. And then I started at a small time management company which is called Impulsus. Um it's a more franchise organization and they teach com uh other companies how to manage um their time well and that's if you do anything in email marketing or whatever and they just try to explain how to become more effective within business but the culture there wasn't really my thing um it was very it wasn't very driven organization and I was as I said already very ambitious um So after half a year I stopped there and I went back to uh one of the companies that I applied for which was called Sony or still is called Sony and that was around 18 years ago. Um and within Sony I did a whole career. Um and I started there all the way at the bottom uh at SL support and climbed my way up into a European function in strategy and management. Um so yeah that's a bit about me. I like a lot of things. Um I like good food. I like musicals. I like well I don't like sports but I have to do sports. Um and I really like to travel and we'll come to that later as well for the travel. >> Which current startups are you building right now? >> So I have two uh two startups that I'm building. One is ops detox that is called operational detox which is a sort of consultancy company which I'm building because of my years of experience within Sony and that is a consultancy that just comes into a company big or small so mainly corporates because they're a bit stuck uh but startups as well because they're growing so fast and they don't have correct systems in place processes in place etc. So what I do I do a sort of scan with them and in that scan I can detect where are the issues and I have six different modules and they are from meeting structure how do I run meetings to communication decision making reporting psychological safety so there's a lot of these different modules that I can um can deliver uh and I'm expanding along the way so there are six core models that I do right now and the module is between six or eight weeks that I can really detox the organization. So I'll come in I'll have interviews with everybody I'll look at the structure see how everything is being done and then from there I will give an advice this is what I would change this is how I would structure it etc and that's when it stops but I can also do additionally I can do the full implementation but my core is really to come in do the consultation give them advice and say this is how you should do it [snorts] the other side of the business which is sort of linked to it is a keen keynote speaking and that keynote speaking is me telling my life story. So I have a very impactful life story which sometimes scares people but it's all about breaking free from autopilot and the um keynote itself is called surviving isn't the same as living tracks [snorts] of time. and why tracks of time and why surviving isn't the same as living is because um some time ago 23 years ago I wasn't in a very mental state of mind and there was a lot of things happening etc and at that time I decided to step out of life and that was that was a very dark period in my life and I just didn't see any way out So I was thinking okay why do people like me they don't like me what do I have to deliver in this world etc. And in the end I thought okay I I don't like this world I don't want to be here anymore nobody cares if I'm here yes or no and that's when I decided to jump in front of the train. So it was very very impactful. It was a very dark day in my life and for my parents and my friends. Um I had a 15% of survival uh I was 2 months in the hospital over a week on intensive care and the first thing that I uh said um when I woke up is I don't want to die anymore. Not I want to live but I don't want to die anymore. And that's when there was a turning point for me. And that's the story that I tell within my keynotes talking about are we choosing our own lives? Are we happy with it? Are we doing things on autopilot? yes or no. And I want to tell people to stand still, think about their life. Uh if it's in business or in in personal, is it something that you really chose yourself? Are you just doing it on autopilot? And are you happy? And I realized after 17 years at Sony when I signed, the day I signed, I arrived back at home and I was whistling. And I remember that I only whistle when I'm really happy. And I I thought, okay, when was the last time I really whistled? And that was years ago. And you see, it's like you're um you're a frog which is being boiled, right? You sit in the cold water and it heats up. You don't feel that you're losing your grip anymore. And that's the same what I had in Sony. I was still happy with my function, but somehow something was missing. And and along the way, I I missed that whistle. And that whistle came back the day I signed. And I was like I chose my life again and from there I went into sobatical. So yeah that's the two uh things that I'm doing. One is the ops detox which is operational efficiency for companies and the second one is a keynote speaking about surviving isn't living breaking free from autopilot which can be on the personal life but also for the companies. Um, what made you what was the thing that you most appreciated after that experience? [snorts] >> H that's a good question. It's very difficult because you would think at that time um it would have such a huge impact on your life and somehow it did but it's the small moments that you really appreciate life when it happens. I'll give you a few examples. One example is when I was in a hospital. Um, I was there for two months as I said, but the hospital hospital food isn't that good. Well, at that time, maybe it's a lot better nowadays, but this was 23 years ago. And I was in a room together with another man uh and his daughter came by um and he wanted some different kind of food. And this was the Luma in Leiden next to um the station. And in the station there's a lot of different food options. And he said, "Well, bring me something back. Uh, and and also bring something for the guy next to me." And I was like, "Okay, yeah. Well, love to you. Thank you." And she came back with a Burger King Whopper. And I was like, "Oh, man." And I I still remember that to this day that that was such a big moment. And these small moments, they they really have such a huge impact. And that's where I also say go back to what is your whistling moment. I have another uh example I was um doing for a charity run um the Antwer Bunul challenge. So everybody knows the DAR challenge probably. This is where you have big cars and they do a race from uh I think from Paris to Dhakar and we did the sort of alternative version um which is uh buying a car which is maximum €1,000 and and driving it to DAR and then a little bit further to Gambia and then they will sell the car and whatever um it's it is sold for that money goes to a local charity. But during that trip, you come in very lots of different places. And one of the places where we stopped was in the middle of the Sahara and there's nothing there, right? So there's no no uh really nothing. So there was only sand sand and us we were I think 25 or 30 cars and we are having a bonfire. But then we switched off all the lights and then you look up and there's so many stars. If you look here in the Netherlands and you look up, there's so much light pollution. So, you don't see anything. But once you're there, you can see the whole galaxy. And I've never seen so many stars in my life. And again, that's one of those small moments that I thought, this is really why I'm living. This feels like I'm alive. And as I mentioned, it wasn't that I woke up there. I said, I don't want to die anymore. Not I want to live. And these kinds of moments, small moments makes me really think I want to live. I have one more example which is recent example. Last year I went to climb the Kilimanjaro in Tanzania. And uh the first few days is easy. It's just walking up uh if you can walk a ladder you can walk up the Kilimanjaro. But the last day is that you climb the summit and you wake up at 11:30 at night to start climbing for 6 hours and it's really slow walking, right? So they call it polo poly pole slow. [snorts] Uh and it's really step by step by step and we woke up at 11:30. It was pitch dark. Um it just had snowed the day before. No snow at all. We woke up and there was I think 5 cm on our tent. So that also made the climb a lot more difficult and you can't think about anything. You just think about step by step because if you do something else your rhythm of um breathing etc just disappears and we were at 4600 m and we had to go up to 5800 m. So 1,200 m we had to do in 6 hours up. It was horrible. And you saw along the way people that had they had to stop, they had to go back because they had this height sickness etc. So they were very pale. They couldn't climb any further. Um but we we went on and we reached the top and the top is magnificent and the reason why you uh leave at 11:30 it's because you have the sunrise on the top and once you're on the top ah that's such a beautiful view and it's an accomplishment because you went on beyond um and that's when I also realized yeah I'm free this is the life I love uh and I started dancing whilst other people they had no breath I was dancing on top of the kiliman Jarro really enjoying life and that's why I said yeah those are the times that I think yeah I'm alive and this is what I like to do and that's what I want to tell other people also with my keynote speaking get away from this autopilot choose for yourself you're just surviving you're not living and that's what what it's all about >> what would you say to a person that is in a dark place or is going to be in a dark place >> it's very difficult because a dark place is for everybody something else and everybody reacts in a certain way. Um, what I've learned with most people that are in a dark place, they need to get out of their normal situation because it all influences you at that time because whatever the reason you're in that dark place is because of your surroundings. So, it's either the people, it's your house, it's your work. get out of that location because that's feeding the demon inside you which spirals you down down down. Um and that's what I had the same when I was feeling the moment that I wanted not to live anymore. I I asked people get me out of here take me somewhere which I don't know which I've never seen before and everybody was like no no no just go work do your studies concentrate on that then your feeling will go away but I think the crucial thing is that people need to step outside of the environment that they are in to experience new things because everything is feeding that monster and just go out go walk go into nature Go to a different country. Go talk to new people. Go and watch movies that you've never seen before. Happy movies, not not the other ones. >> But yeah, do something that will give you energy, positive energy, and get all the negative energy and the drainers out because that's will feed you more and more and more. And I am not saying this is a cure. I'm not a psychologist, etc. But this I feel myself if I wake up in the morning feeling terrible, I do stuff that I like. Um, I went on a sbatical. I woke up every day with sunshine. That makes such a big difference. Netherlands is a good country, but weatherwise not so much. >> No, no. Weatherwise. [snorts] >> So, let's uh move on to your years at Sony. >> Mhm. >> Um, how will you evaluate your experience in a in such a big corporate? Do you think corporates are different from other types of companies like mediumsiz or even startups? >> Uh, yes. they are for sure luckily because corporate is not for everybody. Um what I felt within corporate is everything is structured very nicely. There's taking care of everything. If you want to move to another position, there's all kinds of opportunities etc. But there's also a lot of bureaucracy. Um everybody needs to do an approval. Everybody needs to say something about it. There's so many people that will talk about it. um if you're in a meeting their decision is being slowed down because of the bureaucracy uh it has to go over all these levels they might not trust you etc and that's just because it's hierarchal uh but also this whole bureaucracy uh and of course there are corporates that are more modern that were born in this age however the bigger you get the more complex it will get so it it's yeah it's going to be always that way If you're in a startup, of course, you have 20 people maybe or five people or if you're a soloreneur, you're all on your own and you have to know everything by yourself. You have to figure everything out. There's no processes. There's no systems in place. And with corporates, it's all there. There's a process, there's a system, there are tools there. Uh there's enough money to have that. There's meetings, there's people that can explain you, etc. But that also takes away a lot of creativity. Um, and in a startup, you have to learn it along the way. You have to start doing things. Uh, if you want to do it perfectly, you're going to be too late on the market. So, yeah, there's a lot that you can own yourself, but you run into a lot of problems and a lot of challenges. And the bigger you grow as a startup or a mid-size company, then you need to start thinking, ah, but I need better structures. I need better processes. I need to buy tools, I need to invest. And then you become a bit more corporate because then you think ah maybe I need Microsoft, I need uh Windows and maybe Salesforce or other platforms. Um now people are looking into the more um agile kind of platforms and the new AI platforms which is also very useful. I use it myself. I use lovable a lot. I live I use cloud for almost everything nowadays. Uh but all these um corporates they have so much legal issues with that. When I was trying to implement chat GPT and AI within Sony yeah everybody's like yeah let's use it use it but legal and GDPR was like oh no no we're not allowed we need to test. And then they created their own kind of AI tool but it didn't do what you wanted it to do because there are so many restrictions. Of course you have privacy laws etc. If you have a new um new implementation of a of a new model yeah if it leaks then the competitor might know what's what is there. So yeah I understand that it's this difficult but it also really slows you down as an organization. >> So startups are more dynamic than corporates then >> I would say yes. Um, of course, so this is what I tell people and I also told my brother, he has his own company, a catering company. [snorts] It's good to start, I think, at a corporate so you can learn structure etc. So if you're really young, then learn the structures for 3 years max or something and then go start your own company because then you're you know certain structures. It also takes away some creativity maybe. So I don't know the best way, right? Um, but this is how I experienced it myself. Um, it's good to know certain things before you start. Some people like my ex, she was she was just doing stuff. She also did uh she founded two companies and she was like, I don't know it yet, but I'm just going to start. And some of these startups, they go like that. Um, and that's remarkable, but it's also the mentality of the person. So if you're not an entrepreneur yourself or you don't have any in your um in your network or in your family then maybe first go corporate learn stuff and then go which is a safe way and otherwise yeah just start just do >> and that's one of the lessons that I also learned is I was waiting too long um I was like ah but it's not perfect yet and um I need to do this and I need to make sure that I have all my modules complete and I need uh uh my branding to be complete and my website to be complete and everything had to be there but yeah if you're doing that you're missing a lot of opportunities already >> what made you not to start before >> um one is the so there's a few reasons and these are not the reasons that everybody typically has one is comfort zone um so after I left Sony I had many ideas but I had a very comfortable situation my costs are very low I have a lot of money that I can just spare and I can just relax. Uh and I did my sbatical and that sbatical extended every time that I was in my sbatical because the intention was to go to Bali uh on a one-way ticket and just see what happens, meet new people, uh see if the nomad lifestyle is something that I would want to explore, etc. Um and then I I traveled for 3 months. I met a lot of new people. Uh, I had an amazing time. I went from Bali to different islands in Indonesia. I went to Singapore, Tokyo, Sydney, Tahiti. Uh, I did a boat tour through French Polynesia for nine days, then Bora Bora, New York, and back home. Um, so that was amazing. Now I forgot your question. [snorts] >> What made you Yeah. The comfort zone is >> Yes, that's one is the comfort zone is a delay. The second one, yeah, is uh really, yeah, I didn't need any money. And three is I'm a person. So, I'm not a a radical entrepreneur. Um my brother is. So, he can have big ups and bigs downs. And he he just goes, he just says, "I don't mind. I need to spend the money to invest, etc." And I'm like, "But I need at least €20,000 on my bank account to feel safe, etc." And that's because I was in corporate all my life, 17 years, stable. Every month I got some uh some money. Um and that was also a sort of cage that I was in. Um but that made me yeah very cautious and also seeing other people fail. I was like but I don't want to fill. Um so I need to have everything's thoughts through h and I wanted everything to be perfect. But now that I'm with a business coach and I am in a um in a network uh they call it the the inner circle. Uh and that's that's a place where you talk with a lot of entrepreneurs. I go to network events. Um and this is where people always say but it doesn't have to be perfect. Nobody knows what you're doing. I remember when I was organizing events for Sony for 400 people across Europe in a one location. They have no idea what is on the agenda, what is coming next, etc. So why does it really matter people? It's all inside your head and just do what you want to do with the timing. If I say if I don't say one word, then people won't notice. It's about how I bring it to the public and of course there are certain elements that will be dropped and they think, "Ah, that is what I really needed to hear." but other filler words etc. they don't care. So just start. So for me it was always like ah it's not perfect yet and last week my coach said put the website live and I put it live and yeah it's not perfect but it is very good. >> [snorts] >> Uh and that also makes me um take down those barriers, right? Uh and the more you learn um the more you do, the less scary it is. I remember an article two weeks ago, people don't call each other anymore really physically with the phone because we're so used to texting, etc. Um and people don't really speak to one another over the phone. Uh, I had one ex-girlfriend, she called her mom every day, two hours. That's too much for me. But people don't do it. Uh, even when I call my parents, we we set a time. So, we say over WhatsApp, shall we call Sunday at 12:00? And that's how people operate nowadays. We're scared to do things. I was scared to meet new people, go to network events. I'm like, why? These are interesting people like you're doing right now. Getting people to connect each other. There's nothing scary about it. You're same blood as I am. So why why would you be scared? And this is what is a in a lot of people's minds, right? If it's in a meeting, I don't want to dare to speak up because I'm I'm junior in this position or maybe when nobody would like my idea or whatever, people are just scared. But what's the risk? Someone say no or whatever. Okay. Well, a no you already have, right? >> Yeah. So yeah, that that's the third thing for me. I was really perfectionistic and scared. Um but yeah, I'm over that now. But someone needs to help you. >> Nice. Since Johnny Sony is a Japanese corporate. >> Yes. >> Do you think is there a difference in the culture? >> For sure. Yeah. So Japanese is very hierarchydriven. Um they have changed a lot over the years. Um the the thing is if you're in a corporate uh the the further you are away from the headquarters the less impact you will have. When I started in the Benlus there weren't really Japanese managers locally. When I um joined the European headquarters I think 50% was there uh Japanese and they have a really different approach to things. Uh I'm not saying the culture is bad. Um it's just different and if you don't know how to communicate well with each other, you will have a lot of misunderstanding and you will have a lot of extra work. So I'll give you an example. I had a manager Japanese of course once and he said I want this to be done. Um and I'm like okay I'll I'll do that but how do you want it? Yeah, just do it. And I had to go back three or four times because he had a certain format in his mind that he wanted it in. Um, and he was every time, "No, no, I want it different." Okay, but just tell me how you want to see it. I can do the analysis. I can do the groundwork, etc. But if you want a pie chart, then tell me you want a pie chart. Or if you just want to see numbers, just tell me you only want to see numbers in a certain way with coloring, etc. And if you don't have those conversations and this is key within um any company communication if you don't communicate what you want if you don't make clear so clarity is really important um that is very different. So we as Dutch are very upfront and we speak our minds and we are direct. That's what everybody always says. Um, and that helps because we tell you what we want to see, what we want to hear, um, in the way we want it. Uh, and there is this, uh, this book, the cultural map. It's good to read because that also shows you the different approaches between the different cultures. Uh, and the culture of Japanese. I really love the Japanese culture because they are ah like the samurai samurai, right? So they they have this sense they they have this tradition and that comes back in their life, their work, etc. Sometimes a bit too much like um uh you're not allowed to leave your job before your boss leaves. That's a real Japanese work ethic. Uh it's becoming less and less and less, but I saw that within my team that my colleague, he was Japanese and every time he was just sitting there not really doing anything because he had finished his work. Um but once his boss and my boss left, then 5 minutes later he just packed his stuff and went off and I was asking but why? Yeah, that's respect. That's how we do it. That's our work ethics. And I said, yeah, but I was done. Uh so I left sometimes 2 or 3 hours earlier. I like yeah but I finished. Of course I can do more. But yeah, I wanted to have a social life. I wanted to see my friends. I want to go to gym etc. uh that so there are very different cultural differences but they have so many good things like ikiguai the sense of the purpose of life what are you thinking and that comes also back into um in the work environment so yes it's a very different culture it's very hierarchal you have to fit in you have to do the politics and otherwise yeah of course you can work there but don't expect much then they really respect if you work and work hard and then you will get to the next level. >> Your last position uh which was head of sales, right? >> Uh it was uh strategy and planning um which is very broad kind of um position. So what I did was any new project within the company I was doing with my team. um every year we had a survey and the survey within the 2 and a half 3,000 people within Sony uh Europe and from there I took uh the new projects. So I read all the comments I saw what was going well and what was going less h and then I proposed to the management these are the five or six topics that we should tackle this year and we should create a project around it. Um and then the the director said okay let's do those schedule uh a meeting do a kickoff uh and do the whole project management together with your team. Um and that was across a whole company. If it was uh the new uh budget tools development or implementation of a diversity, equity inclusion uh within the organization or uh organiz organizing uh conferences anything that was beneficial for the internal organization I was responsible for with my team. So I understand uh why one of your entrepreneurs is operation detox since your extensive experience. >> Yes. >> How will you say that we can have effective meetings and not lose time on them? >> Um there's a lot of things within that. So that's why it takes six to eight weeks to really detox the organization. First is that a lot of meetings are just there because they were there in the in the past. So what I see a lot in organizations is that um someone put a meeting in but that person left already two or three years ago and nobody really knows what the meeting is about and they just keep doing it because they've always done it that way. Um it's part of their schedule, it's part of their uh monthly cycle. So yeah, we we keep on doing it and that's what you see in a lot of corporates. People don't raise the question anymore. Are we doing the correct things? Why are we doing it this way? And that's why my role was so good and that's why I was so good at it. I always ask that question. Why are we doing it this way? Yeah, because the industry is doing it that way. But is that the most effective way? Yes or no? So that's one of the things uh too is to understand if the right people are in the room. Um and that's where I created a document which is saying okay what type of meeting is it? How long will it take? um is it going to be online, offline or is it going to be a hybrid? Who is the responsible for it? Um who needs to be in it? What is the topic that's being discussed? Is it going to be a decision making uh yes or no? What is the preparation? What is the outcome? What is the action list? So all these items and one of them is who is in the room. And during COVID I saw that a lot of meetings moved online and a lot of people are just listening in. So we had a monthly meeting um and everybody I think at the beginning we were around 120 people on European basis that were in that call when it was physically and then when went online I think it moved to four or 500 people and I said well it's nice that people want to listen in but what are you doing here is it just because you want to be updated you your manager told you to listen in because listening in online isn't very effective because you're doing other things online anyway. You're working on your normal day job, etc. And then sometimes you hear something in the background. But is that really effective because you're losing your energy? You're losing your concentration. And that's the most crucial part. Who is in the meeting? And do you have a role? If you don't have a rule and it doesn't have a benefit, then tell your manager, I'm not going to be in here because I have other work to do which is more value ad. Um, you can always see the notes or the presentation or whatever. If you're really interested in the information, then just look it up. But if you're not there to make a decision or to have some kind of influence, don't go. So that's that's the biggest thing. I think the the other thing is that a meeting should be more for decisions. So if we're doing a meeting then present something to decide not to only catch up people that were uh that want to know what happened because I remember a lot of meetings I think 60% of the meeting is talking about the past and then 40% talking about the future but whatever happened in the past yes we can learn from it but we should focus on the future because that is where we can make a difference so it should be 40 60 in instead of 60 40 or even 30% and 70%. And then the question of course yeah um in what kind of situation are you as a company? So what what I've seen a lot is that people concentrate so much on what went wrong and why didn't we deliver? Um let's give you an example. So in Sony we sell our products to our customers the media marked uh all those uh cool blue bull etc. Um, and we do a forecast every uh every month and there we said okay we would sell 100 TVs and we only sold 80 uh we sold 80 and then there's discussion why did you only sell 80 and then yeah well um competition pricing blah blah blah but this goes into so much detail um that sometimes we're talking about one piece of a small earphone which is called which is about €9 per piece. piece, but it's a strategic model. But yeah, how much time should you spend on discussing one piece of something that small? Um, so th those are items that I think we should skip more within a business, but that's what I was saying. It really depends on which situation you're in at the moment. >> So, if you're you have 80% market share, then those discussions you don't need to have. But if you only have 1% market share or 2% market share, then of course it becomes a lot more relevant. Why is it happening? Why are we only selling one piece whilst the competitor is selling 99 pieces? And then you uh then you can have the conversation. So it's not about the conversation uh why did you only sell one piece, it's about what is happening in the market. Why where are we within um within media? And this is where Sony was very great. They really went into the detail when it went wrong. Uh and they were looking at selection, location, condition, which means where in the store are we? Is the condition of the product good enough? How is it displayed? Is the pricing correct? Uh is the marketing correct? Uh etc. And this is where I think you should focus once you're in that situation. But if you have 80% market share, don't care about that. care about the bulk, care about keeping momentum and growing. So then you should look into yeah more the future etc. >> How can we structure teams uh that are run efficiently? >> Good question. Uh I think it starts with culture and clarity. Um if you have a good culture, people uh would speak up. They do their job correctly. uh if it's clear what the message is, what's the company should do, what the culture is, what the uh what the direction is, I think that helps a lot. What also helps is that psychological safety within the company. Um because people feel at ease to be able to challenge the director or challenge your manager or speak up wherever you have. And you have all these different gaps, right? You have the gaps in age, you have the gaps in uh in culture, you have the gaps in um gender and all these different gaps also have a kind of yeah issue because people don't feel they can speak up. For example, in meetings, you always see that the younger people um normally they speak up, but once they're in a very traditional organization um and a hierarchy organization where people especially certain level, they they have an influence. Yeah. They don't give the room for these kinds of people. Um I'm saying that wrong. It's not kinds of people. People in general, right? if you are a different culture, if you're younger, and I saw that a lot that the younger generation, they didn't dare speak up because they were spoken down to, etc. And that is in a lot of different organizations, right? Um I see that with um governmental organizations, um I see that in smaller startups, etc. Uh and it's everywhere. So you have a lot of different gaps. So what really makes it easier and efficient is clarity uh a good culture and um there was one more thing that I was thinking of is that communication. So if there's a real clear communication of what we want in life and what we are doing and there's open communication and you don't have too many tools to communicate in because you're searching every time and that is another element which makes it a lot clearer uh and operational efficient. >> What's the approach to select the tools for a company? ah very difficult because [laughter] if you're talking again with corporate they already have contracts in place right so normally uh big corporates they have a connection with a salesforce or a Microsoft etc and if they have a contract with them it's logical to take all the tools that they have so let's say Microsoft if you then have Microsoft of course you have excel powerpoint uh and those types of tools then you have teams which is connected to it so you won't take Slack uh as an example um and you'll have PowerBI instead of uh a different kind of visualization tool because you're restricted to whatever corporate has in their contract and those contracts are very expensive uh and the tools don't communicate very clearly with each other. Uh if you go into startups, they are more of the newer kind of tools. So they're looking into what really does help me um and can communicate with the other tools because yeah you don't have one ecosystem anymore which is called Microsoft. You have other kinds of tools that either you've created. So let's have a look at Amazon. Amazon creates everything themselves. They don't have an SAP ERP system because they created it themselves. They don't have a supply chain system because they have engineers in Seattle just creating it for them. The difficulty there is of course that if that engineer leaves and something blows up, a new engineer has to re-engineer the problem. So there's pros and cons in the tool stack. Um but what I do is I come into the organization I look at the tools and there are a lot of tools that are not being used but they pay for so that's one two is that they have well then you have the tool stack with the communication part is that the communication between the tools and between the meetings and etc they use WhatsApp they use email they use excels they use teams they use sharepoint point. They use so many different ways to communicate whatever is being done and then people get lost because where did we store it? Did we store it on SharePoint? Did we store it in the teams or was it sent via email? And this is where a lot can be more efficient if you just choose when you do meetings this is a tool to use where we store everything etc. So the tool stack really depends on what kind of organization are you what is allowed within the organization and are you open to change but also are you open to reduce and stop things because a lot of people will be like ah but I love that tool so much yes I understand but now you have five tools you don't know where to find it and we have to reduce because that can uh save significantly as well because it costs a lot all these um users um you have subscription forms etc. I myself have chat GPT I have cloud I have perplexity I have uh Gmail which I pay for an account I have lovable um I have whisper and all these are strategically taken because I need them to do my business and they can uh help each other out as well. Um but I can also choose yeah I have an Apple but I can also go for Microsoft and have everything from Microsoft but then you are limited. They always say um Apple is very limited. it is it's a safer environment but if you use Microsoft it's also limited because you cannot go outside of the Microsoft 365 right so it really depends on yeah where are you in your mind and I think a lot of companies are scared for new things and that's why a role as mine uh within the company or as a consultant I think is very valuable because they can teach you new kind of things because you're doing everything on a traditional way because we do it this Okay, but nobody challenges it and you don't know what the impact could be. It could be very positive both in operational efficiency but also for your P&L, right? So you can reduce a lot of cost time and get back value add for this. So yes, tool stack is very important uh thing. >> What's the role of AI in organizations? Ah yes that's difficult question because there are well this is my interpretation right um so for me AI can help the individual um will it replace some certain functions in the end eventually I do think so but currently if you don't use AI you're already a bit behind because it can make you so much more effective I write a lot of emails I get things done with my agents in place that I don't have to look at myself anymore. Brainstorming becomes a lot easier. I I created a brainstorm session two days ago. And now I created a game for my operational detox and for the keynote speaking where I I have some intellectual property which I call speakup gym and this is where psychological safety is being yeah practiced. And with this game it's a sort of truth or dare system. Um, and it takes everybody to the next level because you have a lot on your mind, but you don't speak it. And these cards, they just ask a question. And then there's a truth card and then there's a dare card. Uh, a commit or a confess. Uh, and those just says some random questions about your work situation. Um, both for meetings or for all the modules that I do, but also for psychological safety. And then there's three uh different options. There's one this truth or there. There's one more group discussion. So there is a um a card that says a certain thing. And then people are going to say, "Ah, but I think it's this way. I think that way." And then at the end, the leader says, "Okay, do we agree? It's going to be this way from now onwards because we tackled the problem." And the last one is more um more the psychological safety where um it's about truth latency. And truth latency is around how long does it take before the truth really comes up. And a lot of people they just don't dare to tell the truth. That's um a decision that has been made is the wrong one because of XY Z. And people think uh but he's the manager, he's a guru, he would know. So what do I have to say? And these cards will bring it on to the table and say okay now really say what you think. So AI helped me a lot. So back to your question yes I think AI will help organizations a lot in uh operational efficiency. It can uh replace a lot of things. A lot of meetings that I have nowadays, I um have an app which is called whisper whisper flow. Uh and that just records the whole session and it can create the notes for you. If you have a certain format, you can load it into that and then it just creates your whole action list. You don't need a secretary to sit into the meetings anymore. No, this is so great that it it just reduces so much time. And if you know how to communicate with a tool like that, then you don't need to really check it anymore. They are so good. And I use this with uh with my brother when we have meetings around brainstorming for his company. We have uh three other entrepreneurs that are helping my brother to scale his business. and I just put it on my phone and then afterwards it just creates the whole uh notes and the action list and I send it through and I don't really have to look at it anymore. Maybe the action list did everything get in there but yeah it helps so much and there's so many AI tools. My whole website was built by lovable. I was amazed how this could help entrepreneurs. Um, I did the same for my brother, but I outsourced that and that cost him, I think, now in [snorts] total €2 or €3,000. For me, it was a subscription of €25 with Lovable. And within a week, the base was there. And now a month later, I have it live and for €2, right? So, if if it took me two months, it would be €50. But it's all there. There's a web shop there. there's uh a lead generation, there's a a free diagnostic scan that people can do and it's all in my brand. Uh and if I need a tweak, it's done like that. I don't need to send it to a help desk or to a developer or whatever. It's done instantly. So yes, AI, especially for entrepreneurs, it can help you a lot. For corporates, it's more difficult because they have all these firewalls, regul uh uh legal restrictions, etc. It needs to be tested, it needs to be checked, etc. So, it's a little bit more difficult to implement, but once you've implemented, it can help a lot. And I'm not saying you have to reduce people, but you can take back time that they can do more value ad. That's what I was doing in my last role in Sony as well, looking to make things more simple so people can do their real job instead of in marketing creating presentations. Then really go into the market, see what your competitor does because um presentations you can build with GMA, you can build with lovable, you can build with Kva. It's all a push of the button once you've done your skill in there. You can create it now with claude. Even if you do your skill and your branding there, then you just have to input what you want to say and within five minutes your presentation is there which would take normal a few hours for people in a corporate. So yes, I really believe that AI can help and give back time to really get into competition. So really look into where can I grow as a business, what can I do as value add, etc. Yeah. How do you maintain your employees happy or maybe out of the state of autopilot? Although maybe this might not be the same thing. So, uh, good question. That's difficult because every generation has a different kind of approach. um the older generation like the millennials, the boomers, they really need something different than the the Gen Z. Gen Z wants flexibility. They want to be trusted. They want to work from home. Um I don't think all these social events really helps. It's a nice perk, but does it really deliver someone being happy in their position? No. I think two things that really help is one right person right place. So are you really doing the job that you love? If you do the job that you love then you'll do it with passion and you'll do it correct. I've seen so many people in the wrong position. Um for example personally my team when I was in Sony uh when the role started he was good at it and he liked it. um I wasn't the manager at that time but the role because things change right the world changes uh and the roles also change was becoming more a data analyst role and he tried but he didn't like it and I had many conversations with him and I didn't want to fire him but I wanted to find a better solution for him so we found a role that was a much better fit for this person and then he was happy and you saw him also grow as a person but also into that role. So that's one really. What is your purpose in life? What is your passion? Are you in the right position? Um so if that is done correctly, then yes, you will have a lot more value add and you will try to get out of autopilot. But I'll get back to that one. The second one is that you um you empower and you um give positive feedback. So or feedback at all because a lot of people are scared to give feedback that helps the person. So it's it's nice to do a pat on the shoulder which is being not being done enough. I think we always skip the good things. So that is one of the real um enforcers. But the second thing is to help people progress in their career. And this can be done in all different kinds of ways. Um, but for me, I think it's just having the conversation, not in a meeting room or whatever. Just go for a walk. Ask the person genuinely how are you feeling? What are you doing? What are your struggles currently both in life and in work? Because if they're happy at home, they might be happier at work. Or if they're happy at work, they might be happier at home. Um, so have those real conversations not only about KPIs, etc. just get to learn the people that work for you or you work with and try to help them out. Same as you're doing the whole connecting people with each other. You're a dating service for professionals, right? So, you're trying to get people to get connected to help each other out to make them grow as a person in their company, getting networks together. That's the same that you should do in a business, right? You should just have a collaboration. I'm not your boss. No, we're colleagues and if you're doing well, I'm doing well. If you're happy, I'm happy. And if I'm happy, he's happy. And if he's happy, the company's happy. If the company's happy, maybe we do better products. If the better products, we get better margin. If there's better margin, then we have our investors better and then our shares grow and then we can do another raise etc. So, it's the whole cycle about this happy and then coming to autopilot. So those are the two things I think is very important. The right person in the right place and people being happy in their environment but being really social to each other. Uh autopilot that is something that a company cannot take away from you. That's something you have to search in yourself. If you do everything the same day, it's like driving home. If you drive home from work, you don't realize that you are already home. you forgot the whole drive to your house because you do it every day. You know it almost blindly how to drive or let's take uh an example of the mornings. You do your rituals every morning and um lately I'm thinking a lot more in the shower and I realize that my autopilot in the shower is off. I forget. Normally I do first uh do my hair then wash my body. Now I washed my body. I forgot did I do my hair already? Yes or no. So this is all about autopilot. Break free from it because okay sometimes it's very useful to do autopilot. But if you answer questions on autopilot etc then yeah that that's ridiculous. So break free from that. Challenge yourself, challenge people, challenge systems. As I said, a meeting that's been done two years the same way and the person who created the meeting isn't here anymore. Why are we doing the meeting? What's the outcome? Is it just to meet? So that's all about autopilot and it only comes from you as a person for in life or at work. Nobody else will do it and not everybody can see it as well. >> What challenges do you have right now as a business >> entrepreneur? Yes, as entrepreneur I think um as the start my biggest challenge is to get customers one customers for the ops detox and two uh coming on stage for my keynotes etc. I think once you are known in the world, people recognize your talent, uh they know who to go to, etc., then the business will flow. But your initial one uh to get those first customers, that for me is very difficult. Of course, you can throw a lot of money against it and you can get on LinkedIn all sorts of leads, etc. You have to lot invest a lot of time and energy and that's how the most people do it. And I think that works, but it also just drains you energy-wise, moneywise, etc. for something that isn't really necessary. And this is where I think, and that's why I'm sitting here as well, I'm doing a network event, is it comes from your network. People know you, they trust you. Um, I did my keynote yesterday for a group of entrepreneurs. Uh, and they were like, Oscar, this story, this keynote, what you're saying, this is relevant to anybody in the world. Why don't they know about you yet? Why don't you visualize it on on Instagram, on YouTube, on LinkedIn? If people hear you talk, they want you on the spot. You don't need to sell yourself. You are sold. And that's why I think these kinds of connections are also so valuable. You don't need to invest a lot in money. You need to invest in relations. And that's what you do. You connect the people with each other. You help each other out. And that's yeah, that's what I think is good for entrepreneurs. That's what this um lab is also about. It's connecting people and making sure they get into the right room uh and they get around to the right connections. So yes, my my most difficult part is the sales which I think should go by itself but people need to be visible. >> Understood. >> And any you you gave a lot of lessons in this uh interview but any main lesson that you would like to leave to all the viewers here? >> Uh yes. Um well the lesson I learned is be happy. Don't care about what anybody says. not your parents whatever if you fail in life you can always go back so yes I'm now going into entrepreneurship but if I don't succeed which I don't think it will won't I will succeed for sure but if not then I can come back I can work for somebody else uh I can work at the Albertine if you need money you can always work if you travel to another um another country because you want to live in Sydney go to Sydney If it doesn't work out, come back. There's always a way to come back. So yeah, for me, which I learned in the last year of this sbatical and my entrepreneurship, enjoy life. You only have one. Someone once said it, ie. One life, live it. >> Ollie. >> Ollie. O L L I. One life, live it. >> Yeah, I really like that one. And uh don't wait until um till pension because uh there's so much beauty around. >> Amazing. And as a last thing, I leave you the camera to ask for any connection. >> Oh yes. Well, you know my story. You've heard everything. I think there's two two parts of my story. One is the operational detox and the other one is uh the keynote speaking. I'm very passionate about the keynote speaking, sharing my story, sharing my life. And I would love people to reach out uh for any stage. If it's for 20 people, for 500 people, for 5,000 people, whatever. um if you're different kinds of organizations, if you're um a corporate but maybe you're working at the police or you're in a university and you think it's necessary there, just call me um and um I'll show up. Thank you so much. >> Thank you, Sky. Was a magnificent interview. >> Thank you so much. What's it?

the first bond market platform and marketplace for bonds in Europe. >> If we only wait for ISO or so, we always wait for 12 months. And again, they're not talking about how you do things today. They always talk about how you do things 12 month back. When you do business, you follow the opportunity. If the opportunity says that you have to go pivots to take company, you follow that one. takes a little bit longer to establish business relationships on the German market. You have to be a bit more patient. There's a need to choose. >> You cannot be everywhere at the same time. So, you need to make a choice. Where do you attend? Where do you go to? And why do you go there? So, but this landscape is changing very quickly, especially after the corona time. They don't have the information. They don't have the network and that's where we start to help them with our network. Not only the Enterprise Europe network, also the network of Bellin partner, the local networks. >> We are vertically integrated. Everything from the hardware, the cloud services, the phones, the servers, we build it. We It's a one-stop shop for the customer in terms of buying as well as getting support. >> Fast revenue, work fast, doing fast and uh talking fast, learn fast is so very important. multi asteroid mission. It's going to be a mission to the to visit seven different asteroids and uh our impactor is going in into the last part which is the the last asteroid that they want to explore is just that asteroid came out of the solar system. So we want to know and learn more about how the universe actually began and where all the these different types of materials comes from. We're currently like failing in our designs, but this is part of the process and you have to just refine it, refine it, refine it until it becomes successful. >> We go up to 15 million and now with a new step approach, we can go up to 30 million 30 million to help scale the startup andmemes in Europe, but also in associated countries. For the moment we have we had 10 billion and hopefully uh 30 billion in the coming uh years to find develop scale help innovators in Europe. >> Uh today's quantum computers are relying on uh complex room temperature electronics that travel all the way from the room temperature to the heart of the quantum computer to control the cubits. But with our technology, we can replace the need of the complex uh room temperature electronics, cut infrastructure cost and power consumption dramatically and have the control and read out close to the cubits in the extreme low temperature. Working with marketing in deep tech is super fascinating and interesting and you learn something new all like every day because you work with such a talented team. my perspective you cannot put one in the loop. It's not just another industry. It's not just automotive. It's not just just not just solo cat. This is whoever wins quantum fix everything not just to mention the short algorithm you are cyber security talking about better materials better drugs optimizing things that are not optimizable. You cannot afford to lose fun, right? You don't not want to be at the mercy of anyone else asking them for permission to use the pump on their robotic technology became much more mature, much more reliable, uh much more intelligent with new sensors, with new electronics, with simply new CPUs, with the latest Nvidia chips. We have a lot of more intelligence in the system. Hello guys, here we are in Berlin approaching Hitex Europe AI Berlin edition to see how Europe is shaping AI in 2026's most global tech startup and digital investment event they say. Let's see. Thank you. When we talk about active directory, we are in the group policy management company. all of this up. We have more than those are 12 and most we have we have more than 15. So we come up with something of the island. This is the nice. >> Hello guys, here we are in G Berlin. This is the first interview. Here we are with Anatoli >> Canada from Bonefish. >> Anatoli, can you tell us a bit about what you do? >> Yeah. Uh we are co-founders of Bondfish with Sunlaf Parv. Uh excited to be here. Uh we are the bond market platform like the first bond market platform and marketplace for bonds in Europe. So actually we have more than 550,000 bonds available on the platform uh serving both retail investors and professional ones like wealth managers uh family offices trading bonds. So kind of a platform that serves both uh B2C and B2B clients. Well guys, this is the second interview of the day in Hitex Berlin again at the Netherlands stand. Here we are with Ferry Harris from Third Comply. >> So Ferry, can you tell us a bit more about what you do? Yeah. So basically third comply by the name is we built a platform but also a service to help enterprises to do due diligence on their vendor from cyber security perspective. The reason why I say that is because enterprises when they want to on board use a new services they have a lot of due diligence >> financial due diligence uh market news whether it's uh you know end up in the news for I don't know some uh child labor for example in advance but nowadays more and more regulations also force them to do a due diligence from cyber security because like it or not most of the incident that happened for the past let's maybe five six years it's actually happened because of the vendor not the main enterprise itself. So it means that because the pressure not just from regulations but they also want to make sure they work with trusted vendors they put emphasize on this cyber security due diligence. So we build a platform to help them to process uh this due diligence but not just once not just before the contracting but all year long because let's say uh vendor can be uh secure today but two months down the road things have changed. Maybe they add a new server which is not secure. They publish a new product which is not secure. So by monitoring them all year long we can give signal to the enterprise whether all their vendors are still following their requirements or not. >> So that's what we do. >> How is this related to ISO certification so compliance etc. >> So for the enterprise perspective uh the ISO the soto is just an input and only one of the input. The reason why I say this because most of the time the large enterprises they focus on regulations like in Europe we talk about mist for critical services uh Dora for financial services in all these regulations they need to comply that when they onboard a vendor they have to do due diligence from security perspective but also all year long. So for the enterprise they don't really care about the ISO so much but they can use the ISO the so report as an input of this due diligence but it's a static documentation it's a static report it's always looking back 12 months the audit what we do differently is how can we add more information more signals to a company to add to this ISO and so for example We scan dark web. We scan all the news. We even scan the server of the vendors itself every day. Which means any changes to the servers, any changes in the dark web, any changes to the news, they got to know. If we only wait for ISO or so, we always wait for 12 months. And again, they're not talking about how you do things today. They always talk about how you do things 12 month back. So that's what makes us different. So ISO and so is just one of the input but it's not the only input for us. >> Enterprises then I suppose they might have like also other kinds of frameworks right to evaluate the security compliance. >> Yeah. Typically if we talk about enterprises unfortunately I would say they have too many frameworks like I said let's say let's say a bank and then it's a big bank in uh in Madrid >> Santander okay for example then one they need to comply with Bora because that's a European legislation they also need to comply with uh let's say uh national uh bank from uh from from from Spain Maybe they also need to comply with uh other regulations in other country because Santander is you know operating in multiple countries because they have multiple frameworks most of the time I can say that they always have their own framework which they map. So how can I have one framework that can satisfy UK, Spain and Netherlands for example? So they will have their own framework. Is it based on ISO? Maybe it it can be also based on mist for example from the US N CSF. >> So I can do that. >> How do you say it? The funny part about cyber security and privacy is most of the time they all talk about the same thing but every country believe they can do differently. Our country is unique, our industry is unique. So they always come up with their own regulations but if you read carefully they all inspired let's just use the word inspired inspired from ISO inspired from N inspired from any other >> I guess it's similar uh in the financial industry right I used to be a risk consultant and okay some banks pick some regulation from other some models >> yeah and then you just pick and then when you when you read it >> wait a second they talk about the same thing but not exactly the same thing because they changed the language a bit right so that's what happened with cyber security so yes eventually large companies will have their own control framework but underneath they all talk about the same thing so that's why for us whether a company have their own control framework great then they don't need to start from scratch if a company doesn't have uh their own control framework we have a lot in in our platform as a basis whether it's ISO whether it's N whether it's NSU whether it's Dora >> all the regulations that we have the major regulation that we have we have in our platform but if you have your own we can also work with that over >> and your platform uses AI agents I presume or any kind of technology okay >> yes so basically uh what we do is we we built several AI agents one is to process documents so let's say the vendor has the policy the ISO the so report that's one AI agent to basically consume process this uh documents so to say. Another AI agent is you know to go out to the dark web to scan to see u the situation of this vendor another AI agent to do another scanning for other stuff. So basically we have multiple AI agents and then the outcomes will be triaged by another AI agent to say you know what based on all this business is this vendor trustworthy or not if not if and if you still want to work with them because most of the time people said I still want to work with them what is the recommendations that's another AI agent to to to give a recommendations so basically we have a lot and also based on the control framework that the company has. >> Yes. That's why it is very important for us in the beginning um that we work together because then the AI agent is trained to your own control framework. >> It's a is your process tailored to the client. >> Correct. >> So there is a previous consultancy part where you have a >> correct but it's part of the the it's part of the the service so to say. So it's not like separate. It's always part of our implementation that when we implement we need to make sure that we take their their their framework. We we configure it in our tool then the AI knows which uh framework they need to work on. What makes uhic framework enterpriseg graded? So the way we do it is one it is verifiable uh we use open source uh based LLM anyway and then we have a rag which is hosted in our own server. So when you are working with us you know for sure that it is not going to you know like anthropic or um Gemini it is in our own server in fact if you have let's say um ferry I have my own LLM service can I use it yes sure no problem because the rag is the one the context engine that we have is our IP but the LLM underneath you can use whatever >> what's the origin of the company? >> So our headquarter is here in Netherlands or not here but uh our headquarter in Netherlands we also have a branch uh in Singapore for uh Asia-Pacific market >> but most of our activities come from Netherlands >> and how how did it started? >> Uh actually it started in 2021 as a consulting firm. So what we did uh during this consulting phase is proven that people actually needed uh a new a new way to do things but we still do it manually. So after a while we said like okay you know what now it's time for us to automate this and that's where the the comply comes but so we are doing this not because we see a gap in the market but at least it comes from our own pain which is as a consultant we feel the pain but even then before when I was still working as a employee in the company I do this process also manually so I feel the pain. So based on this pain, based on the c thesis that we try with the different uh clients manually then we figure out okay this is the secret sauce let's automate it with AI and so on >> which is one challenge that your company has right now. I think the biggest challenge is how to convince the enterprise to work with smaller company, right? Uh I mean we have some some enterprise clients but most of them are not risk taker when they see oh this company only 18 people will they survive the next year or not that's always thing in their mind right >> but if I talk to them okay you can test this you can try it yourself they all agree like no one says otherwise they all agree that they need the solution But when it comes to how big is your team, how is your financials, they're always looking for ah okay let's wait for you to grow bigger until you know Microsoft size or uh AWS size. So sometimes in my opinion especially in Europe in order to to make the um ecosystem thrive there's also some risk takingaking element that the corporate needs to give to uh smaller companies, right? We are not startups anymore, right? But we still only 18 people. We are not 1,000 people. We are still 18 people because of AI, we don't need to have 100 people at the moment. Right? So the product works, we have the team who are capable to do it. But because of the size, then suddenly we are not trustworthy. But if I go to for example to the US okay let's try it I think let's also come down to um culture I would say most of the time enterprise customers think about how can I use a solutions for 3 years from now right but risk startups technology they change every six months every months so that's Why even for us to say you know what you can test 10 vendors first 20 vendors first I don't need you to test 1,000 vendors there is still this hesitation like uh should I trust them with my 20 vendors but which actually if you if you test with 20 vendors even if you go to procurement yeah the procurement will say h the amount is too small then just swipe your card for example but again most of the time They're more risk averse here in Europe compared to US. >> Okay. And any lesson regarding your journey for the viewers? >> Uh yeah, like I said earlier, um I started as consulting firm. I thought that I would stay as consulting firm. >> So I never have this idea to have my own tech companies also. But eventually what I learned is when you do business you follow the opportunity. If the opportunity says that you have to go pivot to tech company you follow that one. But of course it it has to be because of you have a calculated input right it's not just like okay I tried this once and after that ah it doesn't work and then I try another one ah it's also not work. So then you always start from scratch. Start from scratch. That's lesson number one. But number two and and I don't know about your audience, it takes time. >> I always thought okay I can launch this product in uh let's say 6 months. It take a year. I can get uh uh a new enterprise client in uh in 1 month and two months. Enterprise sales cycle is 9 months. Right. So it takes time because it takes time one you have to be patient as a founder but also your team have to be patient but at the same time you have to be very disciplined with your money how much you spend which area we are fully bootstrapped so every single sense matters every single event that we we discuss internally like why we go to this event not that event so every single items we calculate very well because we have to be disciplined and my my recommendation even if your audience are you know getting external funding discipline in your finance is very important whether it's your money or not your money >> okay and last question and ask for a connection to network >> okay >> yeah of course u I don't know uh exactly how your network works But if there are uh corporates, it doesn't have to be like enterprise 30,000 people. No. Uh our lowest uh tier is companies with 500 people. And if they still do the vendor due diligence manually, talk to us. Let's start with five. Let you know don't don't start everything with with with uh a big a big bang. Start with five, but let's do test with a real vendor because then you can see the value proposition. Even though if you don't continue with us, it's fine. At least out of these five, you can, you know, give it back to your legal or give it back to uh your regulator or your auditor. You know what? We still do due diligence for this five. We do it differently. This is the outcomes. It's still a win for you. So yeah, we we would like to spread this because although I haven't been to Spain to to test this this thesis, I know for sure that most of corporates today when they do cyber security due diligence on their vendor, they do it very manually. They will ask questionnaire. They will send a questionnaire. They will read the questions. They will read the the documents from you manually at most once. If you have 1,000 vendor, at most in a year long, you can only assess 100. Or if you have a big team, let's say 200. What about the other 800? So we need a better way to do vendor due diligence and monitoring our vendors. AI is here to stay. Then why don't we just use it? So if in your network there are D companies with 500 employees above do vendor diligence manually would be great to uh introduce to to us and then we can do some testing. >> We'll try. Perfect. Thank you so much Fing. >> Thank you. Hello guys, this is the third interview in Gex Germany and here we are with Eva and Eva, can you tell us a bit about you, who you are and what are you doing here in this conference? >> Okay, so that way so I'm the startup leazison officer. I work for the Netherlands embassy here in Berlin and I support Dutch startups and scaleups on the German market. So I provide information, we organize events like this for them so they can present their solutions and we support them with the network connections and different contacts. >> What's the most important thing a startup has to take into account when expanding into the German market? >> It has to be a product market fit. So just because your product was successful in the Netherlands doesn't mean it's going to be successful in Germany. So you really have to think hard about how the market functions, what kind of customers you have in Germany and adjust accordingly. It's the number one rule. How can your embassy help and should they contact you directly or are there any other ways to ask for help when seeking for internationalizing a company in Germany? >> Um we have in the Netherlands we have a lot of different organizations that can support that. We have the Netherlands Enterprise Agency for example. they're the ones they are for organizing this event for us. So there's are there are ways and means that the startups can connect. But my first recommendation would be to get in touch with your local startup hub and your local regional development agency. That should be like the first points of contact because they already have a lot of experience and they've supported a lot of different startups. So you don't have to do things twice and don't keep reinventing the wheel. just take into account everything that's been gone before already, learn from that and then the hubs and the regional development agencies know how to find us as well. >> Are there any particularities about the German market that uh Dutch startup might find as a shock once they come in? I think it really depends on your sector maybe, but in generally I would say it takes a little bit longer to establish business relationships on the German market. You have to be a bit more patient. Um, people really would like to understand your products. You don't have to go into the sales pitch straight away. Try to understand what your stakeholders problem is, what are their challenges and whether your solution is the right fit for them. Build a relationship first before you try to sell the product. That would be my recommendation. Definitely. >> Which kind of startups come seeking for help to the embassy? >> It's very broad. It's not sector specific. We now have a lot of AI based startups. Everything that has to do with data crunches in different sectors. Traditionally we have a very strong influx of life sciences and health startups and I think that's going to continue for a while. Yeah. >> How did you decide to take the challenge on coming to Germany and help startups to internationalize here? >> It was a nice challenge. It was something very different. It was the tech sector after the corona had a very difficult period. Uh we had to build a lot of things from scratch. So in that sense it was good. Interesting. Yeah. >> And does the embassy have any challenge right now uh in their mission? >> But no I wouldn't say a challenge in that sense but it's the growth of the events I think is a challenge. There are many many different tech events smaller mediumsiz big ones and the landscape is very dynamic and it's changing very quickly. So would you say there's a need to connect all of these events or >> well there's a need to choose you cannot be everywhere at the same time so you need to make a choice where do you attend where do you go to and why do you go there so but this landscape is changing very quickly especially after the corona times any advice for startups that would like to come to Germany and sell their services or products here >> do your homework >> definitely do your homework do your research Arch, know what you're getting yourself into. Um, explore the markets and make sure you do as much preparation as possible. >> Really do research on the market, know who your customers are, connect with them as soon as possible and any connection that maybe from the audience or our network the embassy would like to have. Um, in terms of >> any kind of specific startup or a specific profile of person, >> well, we have all the startups here, but I think the Netherlands has a really good uh very broad startup ecosystem. So, I I can't tell you a specific one. In general, I would just say get in touch with the Dutch. >> Get in touch with the >> Get in touch with the Dutch. >> Get in touch with the Dutch. Perfect. That's a good sentence. Thank you Eva for the interview. >> Thank you. Sounds like >> So here we are in Gitex again, the fourth interview. Here we are with Sylvia Boh. >> Yeah. >> Hello, Sylvia. Can you tell us a bit about what you do? >> Yeah. Hello. Uh I'm Sylvia. I'm from uh the matchmaking booth at Dryex. Uh I'm working at the uh Berlin-based uh economic development agency and uh we are organizing this matchmaking at the fair because we want to get uh yeah partners together. So uh companiesmemes startups from all over the world to find the right partner to get international to yeah to to find the right uh funding schemes. Uh yeah so this is a big uh happening for us and uh it's good to to meet so many people from all over the world. >> So you told me you are from the Berlin agency economic agency. >> Yeah it's called Berlin partner. Berlin partner but you are also from the Enterprise Europe network as you mentioned me before. Can you tell us a bit more about what is this network? >> Yeah, the uh Enterprise Europe network is um uh funded by the European Commission. We are in European project which is there to uh helpmemes uh startups to get international to find uh the right funding to find international partners uh to get yeah their international uh partnership they need to grow and to yeah to to to to find new businesses. How does uh this network work and which kind of resources can offer the companies? >> Yeah. Uh how does it work? It works uh locally. So we uh support our local networks. So the Berlin based uh companies but we have many colleagues all over the world especially in Europe but also other uh non-European countries like uh India or like Brazil. uh and uh everybody is supporting their local community of uh companies and connecting with each other. So if a Berlin basedme ask me to um because they want to go to Brazil and they need to know about the local taxes or uh they want to meet partners to to sell their products in Brazil then I can connect uh the company in Berlin uh with the partner in Brazil and like this to yeah to to get international partners. What is the a common challenge that the startups face when they decide to go international? >> Yeah, they that they just don't know where to start. Uh they don't have the information, they don't have the network and that's where we start to help them with our network. not only the enterprise Europe network also the network of bellin partner the local networks uh which is uh also I mean for giteex it's probably the digital um topics which uh are most relevant but also other partners we are divided in clusters so there is a health department there's a health cluster a digital technology cluster a cluster for uh for transport So we uh support them accordingly the the the companies from our region. Yeah. >> How did the project originated the European enterprise network? How did uh race? >> Uh did you mean since when it exists? >> Since when and how was the the proposal for the EU commission to fund it? >> Okay. Uh we exist since almost 20 years now. Next, no not next year but in 2028 we will celebrate our 20th birthday. So it will be a big event for us. So it's not uh yeah it's not that we yeah we exist since uh only some years. No, it's a network uh uh growing uh a lot in the in the last years and yeah, it's feels like a little family, a little family. >> How long have you have you been in the network? >> H now since uh 8 years. Yeah. >> And have you experienced any change on the types of startups that come in this past eight years? >> Yes. uh uh it it always depends on what the startup need you know they uh and and and times are changing right so uh AI is changing a lot for the life of the startups I think but uh um I mean that the questions remain the same I would say it's always about um find and right partner about funding what what is it where we can support them best. So >> yeah that that so the topics don't change too much but a bit the challenges I would say. >> Okay. Well that was thank you so much for the interview. I hope our viewers can uh check later on the the network >> and yeah thank you. >> Thank you. >> That was it. You can query the data in our copilot and you can create daily, weekly or Stop. What? Victor Vtorch. for client. forever. Fore! Foreign! Foreign! certific forchech. foreign. Okay. Instant Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Defense. Offensive. analysis. Okay. EOS. improve. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. Foreign speech. for most. for Okay. workingers. Oh yeah. Thank you. the way we know this bike coding. So if it's part of the bike, it means it is very >> Here we are in the seventh interview I think of the day. So >> seventh interview a lot. Uh so >> so you're professional. >> Well I try try to work. So Ardavan Ardan Awabi. >> Yes. >> Nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you. Thank you for visiting our booth today. >> Thank you for granting me the interview. Tell us a bit about your core company. >> Emmetrotel was established in 2008. We have been in business for 17 years. Uh we are uh we operate out of US. We operate out of Canada. We are operating out of Netherlands as well as Australia. uh our business we're in the business of providing uh communication services and equipment for customers who are requiring high level of security and privacy. um you know both in the cloud as well as on the prem uh hardware on the side and uh there not that many companies anymore providing equipment for telecommunication on site and we're one of the you know uh few that is uh continuing investing in this area. Um, typically our customers are government agencies, hospitals, hotels, manufacturing where they need a lot of phones, they need a lot of, you know, they want to make sure their communication is always there even if the internet service is not there or something like a cyber attack going on. Uh, and so that's that's the business that we're in. We provide the voice, video, messaging, we provide the whole solution. And >> Metrotrotel started as this kind of communications company from the start. Reliability, security, privacy and resilience against internet failures or others or there was um let's say a switch at some point in these years. >> Yes. Yes, that's a very good question. We started uh in 200 you know, eight, nine when uh we group of us, we were working for a company named Nortell, that business went away, they went under there. We um decided, look, we're going to start a business ourselves. We're going to help the customers who are being abandoned by, you know, the bankruptcy that had happened and these are the Nortell. And then we started helping those customers with services migration and then along the way those customers you know motivated us to build our own full portfolio uh of products and services uh to offer them and and then as time has passed you know there's been a number of other vendors that they have left the market and like NEC Panasonic and Toshiba about some other vendors that they were and they've left their customers and we're helping those customers to migrate but migrate in a secure way. Uh having uh being able to reu it's it's very much like you know uh if you have a uh a mobile device and you want to go from one provider to another you don't want to throw those devices away until those devices are broken. So that's how we started with the with the migration and we call this the green migration allowing people to reuse their devices on our platform. But then as time passes and they need they need a new device such as the one that's sitting here, they can upgrade to these devices. They can do this day one or they can do it, you know, uh uh over time. So allows them you know to manage their uh budgets in a much better way more efficient way >> in an era of cloud services and and others and use of the cloud. Uh what makes your company building hardware proprietary hardware? >> It's driven by security. It's driven by privacy. um having hardware allows you to provide a full solution to the customer. If you are buying the hardware one from one place, getting the the cloud service from another place and getting something from another place, that integration is very loose. There's a lot of fingerpointing with us. We like to say we are very much like Tesla where we are vertically integrated everything from the hardware, the cloud services, the phones, the servers, we build it, we it's a one-stop shop for the customer in terms of buying as well as getting support. So that's how we uh that's how we've done it. And even when it comes to the cloud service says we have our own gateways that if the cloud is not available our hardware can take over and this is something very unique to us that you you know don't see you know in other offerings. We do have a cloud service where our which we call it the hybrid where you got the cloud running as well as a hardware on site. If the cloud is not available the hardware will take over or you can just run the hardware by itself. Uh and so that's how we handled it. Could you tell us an example where your product was fundamental for a company to preserve their communications? And well, I give you a we're in Germany, right? We're in Berlin. Uh, and I am very proud to say BASF, one of the biggest, largest chemical companies in the world. they um they were uh looking for a solution to replace their uh Cisco uh communication platform because um there were certain capabilities that they could not get. they are um they are um identified as a critical infrastructure that they cannot run their business without uh uh you know if there is any kind of a network failure. They cannot have their communication system to being down and they are the ones for that. They are like a good example that they have purchased our solution to make sure they have business continuity if there is you know a failure or a cyber attack or or that kind of thing and and because you know the it's a we we have also uh utility companies uh in Germany that they're using our our system for that purpose. >> Amazing. What challenges does your company face right now? Our biggest challenge is sales and marketing to make sure the word gets out and that's why I really welcome you know talking to you today. It makes me proud because I know you're out of Netherlands. Our European headquarters is out of Netherlands. Um the challenge for us to get the word out, let people know because when we talk to the customer 95% of the time we get the business, they understand the value that we bring to the table. So it's really access to the market and coming to these kind of events really helps to meet people like yourself, meet u partners that can uh represent us in the market and so yes our our biggest challenge is the the marketing side of things. >> Appreciate it. Any lesson for the viewers regarding your journey? >> Um that's a it's hard. It's a lot of work but I think um it is uh worth it because uh the satisfaction that you get out of it uh it's uh when when you see something that you've started and you know it grows and uh and the people are dependent on it and they count on it. It's uh it's a but it's you know the you know not giving up you know the learning you know what you hear on the social media is not giving up you know keep doing it and and um having a vision you know you have to have a vision without a vision you know somebody once upon a time said if there is a ship leaving the shore if the ship doesn't know where it's going it's going to go into circle you need to know where you're going so then you can build uh based on on on that so you you really need to have a clear map of where you want to go. Of course along the way you're going to hit bumps and uh and that's part of it but uh yeah so >> thank you and last question any connection that you would like to get from our network from Victoria >> connections I think if you can let especially the the businesses in Netherlands to know that there is a Dutch company uh that has uh full service uh uh when it comes to telecommunication Yeah, I think that would be great. I I really like to uh I'm very proud of being, you know, set up. It took us a long time to set it up to tell you the truth. It was not easy to set up the company in Netherlands. We had to go through, you know, compared to US, it was very difficult. I'm sorry I have to say that. >> No, no, I know. >> But when we set it up, that's why it makes me feel very good. Okay. We got it up and we have the company. It's profitable. It's been uh growing and uh it's uh doing business outside of Netherlands. We but uh we want to grow our business within within the Netherlands itself. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> Thank you very much for Okay. Hello guys, second day in Giteex and first interview of the day. Here we are with Here we are with Gab again. >> Thank you. >> Nice to meet you. Can you tell us a bit about what your company does? TA. >> Okay. Yes, I could tell you our company uh doing and creating some platform for specialists who work with metabolic syndrome patients. Metabolic syndrome if it's vital situation. For example, David step one, David step two and Obsity. Uh we can create the web portal and app. We can contact uh in real time with client and uh doctors and uh doctors can uh get additional earn through the our platform and TA's uh web portal charge 30% of each customer subscription and right now we want to expand our product in Europe and um centralization too and we're looking for in here the clients the distribution person and investment another questions. >> Okay. How was the process of uh creating the the product from a small idea which I assume will be a prediction model for a diabetes and now the whole app with the home >> service right for the dieticians and doctors. >> It is a very difficult work I think because we have a lot of pivot pivot pivot and after that we understood our market after that we understood what you should to do in this market. uh I mean Armenian market and after central Asia market it is a very different and big work together with uh my team with uh I think with government uh because the government is supported us too because in five six I'm sorry four five months ago where won the grant through the prime minister of tech $25,000 and expand our product and developed our product and it's a very big uh big big opportunity ity and work together. Uh why diabetes type one, type two and why obesity? Because it is so big problem in in all over the world. It is big challenges because complication through the diabetes it's so very huge and uh for insurance companies or insurance companies spend a lot of money for the complications and our goals it is expand our product and sale our products in American insurance companies. uh why our companies is important and interested for uh in uh American insurance companies because we are build a velocity model who collect a lot of data and uh show you how percent you have complication in the future and it is so very important I think >> so the model for selling your product to American insurance yes companies is it the data or is it the prediction model or the >> it is model it is model because the data is so very sensitive data. Yes. Uh it is uh personal data. We can solve this data really. Uh we have a local clothes in Armenia, inbakistan and in a future our second market it is Mexico and Brazil. Why Mexico and why Brazil? Because in Mexico right now have uh 38 million people who have metabolic syndrome. And I imagine I can't imagine how it is a lot but insurance companies and government understand how it is uh how this works in uh Mexico and I think it is good for us this market central Asia market why because it is empty market because uh the central Asia market in Usbekistan uh don't have um solution for this situation. So right now your main uh selling point is the app to these professionals right the health professionals the the main uh product is the app for the professionals right >> yes of course yes >> which features uh does the app have >> the features uh the first of features is risk uh score model it is some of the big future features uh next features it is uh um collect the data a lot of we can contact with a lot of trackers, CGM trackers or delivery activity trackers, watch eye rings and etc. collect the data and give the uh our um customer uh some important uh information and not our customer only our customer uh and uh our specialist who work with customer with uh patients. It's a very uh essential and important data for specialist and for uh patient. I think risk score it's some of the big point for us because uh if you have a diabetes I'm imagine because I'm a doctor. uh if I have a diabetes I really want I really want to know what's the complication in the future I can have and I want to work with that complication and I want to do my complication some longer I don't know but uh I mean uh >> yeah you can provide like >> assistance once you see the different variables changing right on real >> time you can see every changes between visits between uh instead of treatment and such So it aggregates the data, it engineers the data, >> cleans the data and interprets the data with your statistical models already validated by the >> of course. Yes, we're validated because uh right now we are work with besthetician model uh which can some important for uh medicine some important AI model can show you some important insights and can say yes maybe you can have this maybe you can ch change this and etc. must correctly uh say what's happened with you >> what's happened >> okay COO what are your task in the company >> my task in a company some huge I think it is uh hiring it is work with team it is uh work with investment work with my sale and uh build um for me it is best team all over the world who can work together and understand uh together in one And uh I want to do some fast fast. Our company is work some fast. Uh because for us it is generate fast revenue, work fast, doing fast and uh talking fast, learn fast. It is so very important and we are great this learning fast doing fast caring fast fast fast because you don't have a time. >> Okay. >> You don't have a I don't know you you we have a lot of tasks really but we don't have a time. >> Okay. And I guess that's one of your challenges, right? >> Of course. Which is the the main challenge would you say in your in your role? uh challenge for me uh I think it is um um stay the medicine staying medicine and go to IT sector and uh work in IT sector because I'm a pediatrician and I work in uh hospitals and I work with people and I saw some important skills or some some a lot of dangerous situation and um I want to work with people. I want to help people but I understood one important thing uh maybe I can build someone interesting someone uh else what which I can do cannot do maybe but I think we can't do it together. >> Yeah. Transitioning from pediatics from the health sector towards IT sector but you are >> well but you're doing great right and you're expanding to different companies. Congrats on that. >> Thank you. Uh it is some some import some big challenges for me because in 10 years of my lives I can I I stay and say no I I I I don't work uh anything uh I don't work in hospital. I want to continue my work in native sector. >> Okay. And what's one lesson that you would like to give the viewers regarding the whole company? >> Doing what you want. >> Doing what you want. We're doing what you want and doing uh for you. >> Doing it for you. Okay. >> Honestly, >> and your company if you want. >> Okay. >> Uh doing what you want because we have a short time in life. We have really short time. And when you think about oh I need uh I should work with there, I should do this, should this no work for you and your work instead of you. >> Okay. and any connection that you would like to receive from the network from Victoria >> any specific profile that you would like to meet? >> Yes. Uh right now uh we are looking for in Europe Europe market uh some distribution person who wants to work with cultures with sport clubs and our uh company give them percent of um revenue of the each market and they can work in market and expand our product in the market and we can collaborate and work together. We are looking for the person who wants to work with us. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. Thank you so much. >> Hello guys. Second interview of the day. Here we are with Raheem from X20. >> Yes. >> Nice to meet you Rahim. >> Likewise. >> And tell us a bit about what does Hex 202 do please. >> Uh Hex 20 is a private uh space company. We manufacture uh cubats all the way to Microsoft buses. uh a Microsoft bus is uh all the components that surround the satellite as well as some of the internal components like the heart and the brain of any satellite. Uh for for example over here we have a model that uh actually demonstrates uh what uh cubat is happening. This is one of our uh flagship projects that we're working on with the UAE space agency to develop uh an impactor for their multi- asteroid mission. The multi- asteroid mission is going to be a mission to the to visit seven different asteroids and uh our impactor is going in into the last part which is the the last asteroid that they want to explore is just that asteroid came out of the solar system. So, we want to know and learn more about how the universe actually began and where all the these different types of materials comes from because it's from outside of the solar system. Uh but uh we're not just uh doing offshoot projects. We're a deep space company. We also develop technology within the UAE, India, and the US. >> What does it take to make a a project to the space? Which are the regulations, >> the team needed, the funding needed? >> Yeah, >> I mean the regulations are pretty new actually. Cubats uh >> good man. Good man. >> Uh cubatants are very early stages in the industry. They're not like super widespread. As we're speaking, most of the regulations are happening right now. All the standards are forming right now. And uh this is where we come in. we come in and uh help to standardize all different types of uh cubats because cubats have specific sometimes dispensaries so they could launch them within space and this requires some kind of standardization and we're part of that standardization by making our product lines more module so they could have a better uh fit for all the different types of dispensers. And the team requires uh it requires a big team to be fair, but we're still a startup. A startup in this context is almost like 50 to 60 people. Okay? It's not a three or four person operation because we need engineers to be specific uh in specific fields. Uh it requires different fields to actually build a satellite, not just an electrical engineer, not just a aerospace. No, it requires way more than that. And you told me previously of camera that you also so you work in the US different countries. >> Yes. >> You explained me that you cannot deploy your engineers from the UAE to US. So you need to build research specific region specific research teams for each country. Right. >> Exactly. It's one of the hard regulations that we face right now. If you want to have projects within the US, there specifically have to be a US team, a US lab, everything is set up in the US. It's almost the same with goes with India. They don't have the 100% restrictions, but they have like almost as much as possible, which is 70 to 30%. This is like the range that they give you. But within the UAE, you know, it's more of a opening a welcoming space for anyone all around the world to come here and start their companies and businesses and develop technologies within the UAE. I feel like uh the US and India, they're playing more of a protectionist role. They want to keep the IP within the within the country themselves so they could use it as a sovereign tool more likely. >> Okay. And all these space projects and missions, >> they are usually international collaborations between a lot of countries, right? >> Yes. >> But uh usually, yes, but we're a small company. We don't have that kind of limitations. Our projects are a bit smaller. They're more focused on uh institutions uh uh educational institutions. Sometimes we do have some uh scientific application just like this. We rarely have any defense kind of applications but uh yes this is how like we're still growing and the whole cube space uh industry is growing at the moment. >> What challenges does Hex 20 have right now? >> H uh one of the main challenges is scaling up. Scaling up is a huge challenge especially when you want to scale up into different countries that now you're like facing a lot of regulations as well as some kind of restrictions on uh like communication restrictions because you have to communicate with the satellite themselves and a lot of like uh the bandwidth are already allocated to certain companies and certain uh and you have to like buy in a spot and it's this is where we actually usually face most of our challenges >> and which is one lesson that you could tell the viewers regarding your journey building a space company >> h never stop building this is I think you will fail you will fail all the time like uh we we're currently like failing in our designs but this is part of the process and uh you have to just refine it refine it refine it until you become successful >> I see and which is one connection you would like to get from the network >> uh other technology companies mainly maybe uh radar specific or telecommunication companies that make any type of modules uh to uh a ground station modules or uh or even like small comm space modules. We're more than happy to actually connect. >> Okay, perfect. Well, thank you so much Rahim for the interview. >> Thank you. >> Hello guys, second day for the interview. Here we are with Nima from the European Innovation Con. Nice to meet you. >> Hello. Nice to meet you. tell us a bit about which is your role in in the council and what does the council do? >> Okay, so I'm Nasimacha working in the European Innovation Council. I am more focused on the business acceleration services in the uh EIC. What is the EIC? The EIC is an initiative uh from the European Commission. It's an initiative that is under Horizon Europe. So the the program of research and innovation we uh have uh 10 billion uh funds and we are invi investing to find to develop and scale innovation uh in Europe and and uh abroad. We are financing innovator at early stage with uh grants uh so we can go up to 4 million uh to finance uh those uh researcher and on top of this what is totally new in Europe is we have private funds and so we invest directly in the uh company and we uh invest with equity we go up to 15 million And now with the new step approach we can go up to 30 million 30 million to help scale uh the startup andmemes in Europe but also in associated countries. So it mean that some countries that are non EU are associated to the program and so the companies from those countries can have access um to this uh funding. So it mean that for example we have Tunisia. Tunisia is associated to the uh program and so Tunisian company can have access can get the fund exactly in the same vein way than a French or German companies. uh what we uh have so we launched this uh fund recently uh we recently it's relatively new we started with the pilot phase in 2020 the fully fled EIC started in 2021 it's extremely successful we have already finance funded more than 800 companies startup andmemes And uh we um because we have this uh fund and we are investing in equity with equity directly in the companies never alone. So we always we are investing with the private uh with private investors. We have now really good uh figures because for each euro we invested we had 3.5 as a leverage effect. So which uh is really make the EIC extremely successful. The also novelty of this type of phone is that we are sector agnostic. So all the innovators from different sectors can apply uh to the to get funding get the funds. We as I said we really go from early stage to uh startup and and and scale up later stage with different type of uh of phones. >> Are there any specific types of startups that look for EIC files? they have to be it's a deep tech breakthrough technology so you can come from the uh clean tech area AI health we we they can apply uh so it's and also we have open calls so we don't have specific date so the call are always open >> needs to be really breakthrough technology >> breakthrough technology exactly so breakthrough technology this is the main goal and We have open calls. So always company you have the solution you want to get the phone you can apply uh always and we have some cutting dates during the year where we evaluate the proposal. Also the uh novity is that we are asking for a really short proposal. So you don't need to send 30,000 of pages. this is absolutely not the goal. So a short proposal and you get a go or no go. If you have a goal then you uh send us a video of 3 minutes a pitch and and you can then after go to the next step and you get the phone extremely fast. So we are um aligned with the private uh sector to ensure that the innovators they are not just dying waiting for the money and so we are uh giving them really extremely fast uh the those fund on top of it. So we have the funds the different type of funding the grants the equity with the private investor without open call. We have also someh sometimes sorry specific challenges. So in 2026 we have five or six specific challenges. So this is uh call specific call in different sectors that are really essential for Europe. So it's more policy related and um we are for example we are adding now a no for 2020 uh end of 2026 the dual use. So it's again another challenge we are implementing. So those are the call the different type of funding and on top of this we have before the uh companies the fund the company that are in the IC portfolio we have what we call the business acceleration services and so those business acceleration services exist to help the companies also innovator depending on the stage their needs uh we are investing in different services such as coaching, mentoring. We have also the international trade fairs. So this is a specific dedicated program that is under the business acceleration services. And this is why for example we are in Jex Berlin. We have a dedicated um special uh partnership with uh with Dubai Center. So the organizer of uh Jiteex and thanks to this partnership under the intern the EIC international trade fairs uh program we are going in different trade fairs uh today in Berlin and Jiteex we are bringing we launch a call the companies from the EIC companies apply depending on the need what they want to get in suspect we interview previously semicondu was the journey of semicolon from funding to coming here to >> so they got the funding they have a program manager and ex inhouse expert that is following them a project officer that is following them during their their daily journey depending of their need and on top of this we have the business acceleration services we launch call >> and we publicly so we are uh mentioning to them okay guys you can have access to this international trade fair so we are going in Berlin in Jitex apply if you believe that you have a market in Germany you want to find uh investors or corporates and so they apply we select 15 companies one five And so this is six months before the dates of the show. And during those six months we are helping them asking them okay what are your needs? What do you need? Uh do you need investor which investor corporate clients where and so we organize everything for them? We contact the uh those uh potential new partner. We organize meeting here in Jex. We have this presence where the EIC so the pav organize different panel session. We are a bit everywhere in the uh the program in the main stage. We do a lot of communication around the the companies during the two days. You have my team. because the team is here and so they are helping them to they guide them for the different meetings organizing everything for them. So it's really a full service and after that us what is extremely important is we check the figures it was impactful not impactful how much you raised uh why what was good not good so it's not only a communication activity it's really a business acceleration servicesation exactly and so we I can tell you that for example thanks to this partnership with Jite Dubai center and our presence last year and one year after we asked the companies okay what did you get from uh this participation in Jiteex and we received figure that they raised millions of euro so this is how we see that it's really smart money EIC investing in business acceleration services smart money such a services the uh company that we are funding are raising money they are signing in contracts. So this is really the goal of it. So we have the international trade fairs but also on top of this we have what we call procurement activities or we are working with the corporates helping so bringing we do a bit the due deal. So we check uh we ask them what to the corporate what is your challenge and depending on the challenge we find the solution in our portfolio. We organize we organize everything. >> The challenges of the companies that want to spend in Europe, are all of them the same? Are there any principal challenges that do they have or does it vary depending on the company? >> Depending of the company really. It's totally different depending of the company. >> Any lesson that you would like to give to some viewers watching this uh regarding the EIC or regarding expansion in Europe? Well, first of all, uh if you are a founder, you absolutely have to look at uh at what is the ICBI. If you have a breakthrough technology, it's your chance to be in contact in be in this ecosystem, get the fund, but it's more than getting the phone because when you are in the EIC, you have a huge uh visibility in Europe, but also outside Europe. So I would really advise them to check what is open now if it's a specific challenge if they are in a niche a specific um uh sector to check look at the challenges because you have less competition let's say and for the rest you have the those open call so really apply to it for the investors I would say come and invest with the IC because we are derisking the uh your operation. So the and you can get a lot of money and we do almost all the work. So it's easy and we are never uh leading the the round. We are not lead investors. So it's extremely uh good for for the investors. The corporates if you have a challenge they they really have to look at amazing companies and solution that we have in our portfolio. As I said, we have 800 uh companies. So, we can find the solution here. And so, it's easy because they are backed by us. They have the full services. So, it's a really a lot of credibility behind those companies and yeah, so and stay alert because now the European Commission just proposed to triple the budget. So hopefully uh in few uh months we will know and year we will know. So if we will have three time the budget as I said for the moment we have we had 10 billion and hopefully uh 30 billion in the coming years to find develop scale help innovators in Europe. How should the European ecosystem be like it? >> Be more open for innovator, be a bit disruptive, open to breakthrough technologies. I think that this is extremely important and also for the investors to take a bit more bit of more risk in vain of what we see in US. So we cannot uh we have excellent researcher, we have excellent solution in Europe and we cannot just stay like this and and see all the super innovator researcher going outside Europe because they are looking for for more money also. So the IC is a public body. We are not here to substitute the private sector. So we are here to we now with the EIC we are derisking their operation but we we cannot substitute the private sector. So I really encourage and so what I see is more now maybe with the current situation everybody is realized that in Europe we should absolutely invest more and deep tech solutions. Okay. >> And it's going to happen >> and it's happening in fact and it will be much more >> so let's take more risk as Europe to >> more risk >> and establish our operations here to grow. Right. >> Yeah. Those companies for example the one that we have in in our portfolio and the European European Commission sorry European Commission fund different type of we they can have and they have a huge impact in our daily life. So why we don't take the risk to have positive impact by finding the solution? >> Oh, thank you so much for the interview. That was it. >> Nice to meet you. Bye. >> Hello guys. Here we're with Josephina from Semicon. H nice to meet you Josephina. >> Nice to meet you. >> Tell us a bit about what Semicon does. >> Yeah. So Semicon is a quantum hardware startup from Finland. Uh we build cryoimmos chips that are basically chips that can operate extremely well in the extremely low comp low temperatures that quantum computers need. Our technology responds to the major bottleneck quantum computing industry is facing. So the complex room temperature electronics. Uh today's quantum computers are relying on uh complex room temperature electronics that travel all the way from the room temperature to the heart of the quantum computer to control the cubits. But with our technology, we can replace the need of the complex uh room temperature electronics, cut infrastructure cost and power consumption dramatically and have the control and read out close to the cubits in the extreme low temperatures of inside quantum computer. What does it take to create such a niche and specific technology? >> Well, it it definitely takes years of research. We are spot from VTT which is the national research center of Finland and our founders are previous researchers from VTT. So as the years of research uh the company was founded three years ago and now we have moved to the commercial phase with our first commercial customer order shipped. Okay. And which is your main customer for this? >> Our customers are uh quantum computer manufacturers and system integrators. Also uh there are potential applications in the space industry and in high performance computing as these are industries that also need power efficient cryogenic uh chips. >> And how do you envision the the future of quantum? Uh well for for sure really exciting of course um right now we we as mentioned uh we already have customers because the quantum systems that are being built today already need uh scalable control electronics but now I believe the estimates are that we'll reach the million cubit era in 2030. So then most probably the boom within the quantum industry will happen then after some years. >> Amazing. which are some of the challenges that semi pro semicon sorry has >> well of course from the marketing side where I myself work with I I can say that we are still a small company so of course we want to increase our awareness another uh common challenge with uh within this industry is talent uh quantum and semiconductors require quite quite niche expertise so uh finding the correct talent is is of course always a challenge And regarding your role which is one lesson that you have learned in your journey in this company as marketing. >> Uh well I have learned that well you need to have the courage and be really brave with working with such uh deep technology. uh I've also learned that yeah the importance of uh explaining something complex in a way that it's easy to understand is it's of course always a challenge but really important and then yeah I would I would say that working with marketing in deep tech is super fascinating and interesting and you learn something new all like every day because you work with such a talented teams >> and which is one connection that the company will benefit benefit from the network of Victoria. >> Yeah. Well, I think we're now looking for connecting with customers and partners. So, to increase our awareness and connect with with new potential partner is really valuable for us. >> Amazing. Thank you so much for the interview. >> Thank you so much. We have some of the best detectors in the world in this on this continent. I always say that German quantum professors have 100 ways to express disbelief. My perspective Europe cannot lose quantum in the it's not just another industry. It's not just automotive. It's not just just not just solar panels. This is whoever wins quantum wins everything. Not just to mention the short algorithm and the risk to our cyber security. talking about better materials, better drugs, optimizing things that are currently nonoptimizable. We cannot afford to lose quantum, right? We don't not want to be at the mercy of anyone else asking them for permission to use their quantum computers and therefore I believe there needs to be a much more centralized effort. I would even imagine kind of a Manhattan project to build the quantum computer with what Katherine said like this is the way to go. this is who needs to build that cuz they're the best at with silicon photonics side of things and these are the best in in putting together the cubits and the control systems and and the error correction. I do believe that this Europe could definitely benefit from such efforts. Morocco has a lot of outsourcing solutions, uh, digital and outsourcing in general. And Armenia on the other hand has a lot of software, uh, solutions, applications, etc. Robot just fall. Uh this girl she touched a button and suddenly the road just >> but they were doing great. I mean they are doing great in general but apparently she touched the wrong bottom. >> Korea as you can see they have uh blockchain companies the fourth interview the second day something like that. Here we are with K. Nice to meet you K. >> Yeah nice to meet you. So K tell us a bit about what do you do? I see it's a pretty obvious you do robots but which kind of robots? >> Okay, we building uh robots for specific applications um specifically for inspection and security. So they using these kind of autonomous platforms that people simply uh can offload work to the robot in for example for inspection tours or for security in dangerous areas uh for you know police or for um investigations or for security guards uh at night in parts in warehouses wherever. So the idea is the robot is simply completely autonomous. He can make his tour. He can understanding the situation. He has a built-in AI. Uh he can simply trigger alarms understanding situations and react on them and inform example a central system. >> What does it take to build a robot? Research time, budget. >> Yeah, it's a lot of research time. It's a lot of details. It's how to put everything together. It's a lot of testing. uh it's improvement in software. So it's a a lot of things we uh until to have this system like it is today we we developed actually with with several teams for about 4 years. Has a breakthrough change happened in robotics technology recently. >> Yeah. the robotic technology became much more mature, much more reliable, uh much more intelligent with new sensors, with new electronics, with simply new CPUs, with the latest Nvidia chips. We have a lot of more intelligence in the system. >> And how does AI affect in robot development? >> Uh, absolutely. Because AI is then the central brain. Um, in the past, robotic was more about making simple tasks. Now robotic with AI combined as a kind of embodied AI can do can do simply react on changing conditions by itself. It doesn't wait for an operator. >> Can we compete as Europe to the Giants Boston Dynamics and other research? >> Um I think we have to focus on very vertical niches. Um understanding our our our knowledge. Okay. uh specifically where uh industries and applications and uh also stick to these verticals. >> How why did you decided to start this? What's the original? >> Uh the origin was um we understood that we have a problem with people because you never have enough people. We have simply an aging society. Uh so robotic plays extremely important role. So that's why I want to be part of it. >> And which are the challenges of the company? The challenges of the company is always how to grow faster, how to scale faster uh and how how to keep the advantage and the edge. >> Can you manufacture robots as if it was clothing like in a factory setting and assemble everything all together without human intervention? >> You need actually a lot of suppliers because robotic is different from from uh you know building t-shirts. Okay. Um it's a it's a much more complex process. It's more like building cars. Okay. So you have different suppliers from different regions from different backgrounds and you have to put everything together. >> And which is one lesson that you have learned in this journey of becoming an entrepreneur? >> Never give up. >> Never give up. Okay. And last question any connection that you would like to get from the network. >> Um we hope that we can trigger interest that people want to work with us um sharing their ideas how how we can improve robotic. Perfect. Nice to meet you. Thank you for the interview.

Serious Games um focus on a learning goal. >> Use your hands. Yeah, >> we're a small company and we like it that way, but we have fun every day. So for me, that's the most important thing. >> We don't want AI [music] to uh take away the creative process. So we are meticulous about how are we going to implement AI in seam book without giving away the creative process. >> [music] >> If the scene starts, I want that animation of the firefighter to run indefinitely. And if I uh created that and I click preview, it works instantly and it just works. >> Once you start moving, you see that it's not real. And once the illusion breaks, your story breaks and um uh what you get in the end is a real person in the virtual world. They where you um see all the communication that you do. And we asked them who's doing this in the Netherlands because we want to be able to use that technology. They said nobody with 48 [music] cameras that are all synced and uh we take uh 48 pictures 60 times per second. Hello guys, here in Rotterdam, prepare to enter to the place. Let's see what VR technologies are happening in Europe. >> Use your hands. Yeah. Okay, that's it. >> So, here we are at VR Days with Bus. Hello, Bas. Can you tell us a bit more about what you do? >> Yes, of course. Uh, yeah. So, I'm Basiland. I am a series game developer. I'm the owner of the barn and we make uh series games for all kinds of purposes like uh training, education, um awareness. uh and we do this uh both digitally and physical games so board games. >> Okay. I think it's already responded on your answer but can you explain us the main differences in serious games and non-s serious games? >> Uh yeah of course uh serious games um focus on a learning goal uh and they use game technology as a means. Uh so entertainment uh fun works best works really well to get people engaged immersed uh but our focus is on a learning goal. So uh for example in a training game you want people to actually know how to do certain steps. So that's the main thing for us and we use game technology to achieve that. >> Okay. So you told us that you are doing so digital games like with VR and also nonVR and board games. >> How came up to combine all these things in the company? Why not just focusing on one? >> Yeah. Uh everybody at my company uh likes to develop games. Uh and we've been you doing board games and and and digital games since the start uh before we started the barn as a company. uh and we see uh an advantage in either type. So board games are great to bring people together at a table to have them uh talk to each other, discuss things, have a physical game to play around with, get them out of the real world, so they don't have to talk about real business, but talk about the business in the game and then make the connection to the real world. uh digital games uh have uh could have the same effect where you sit around a table, but then you're focused on your own screen, on your own uh so that that gets the focus out of the personal contact. Uh but there's a lot more uh you can do with a digital game. Uh much more complex calculations, uh much more complex worlds which can add also to the uh gaming environment experience. And VR games are sort of the ultimate in that sense that the immersion in a VR game is is yeah it's just uh is is great and it really helps people get in into a world but it has a downside that it's for multiplayer at least for now not really well um and you need hardware to do it. So that also makes it uh hard for people to really use it in real life. >> Do you also combine this concept board games, digital games, VR in one or >> Yeah, we've tried it. Um it's possible and I think great concepts especially if you use for example AR uh with a board game or uh so you have can have like calculations or or uh animations done in your AR setting but still our clients they like to keep it simple. So if you there there's great things you can do but it comes with a price and and making digital games is is way more costly than for example a board game. So com combinations are for now uh hard to sell. >> Which are your uh most recent projects that you would like to tell us about? Um, well, one of the the projects we've been doing and which we're showing today is a VR game about what it's like to be in a financially difficult situation. So, you're put into a family situation. You have your your family with a a son, a daughter, a partner. Uh, you don't have money to spare. You're not really poor poor. And it's just a bad decision that made you get you in this uh situation. Uh but it's a challenge to yeah to uh to make sure that you have money left at the end of the end of the month and then you have to make decisions concerning your family. For example, can your son have a birthday party which is really tough as a father. I know it's you can't say no to your child child wanting to have a birthday party, but it's it's something real for people or your daughter wanting wanting to go on a school trip or you're getting invited by your friends to go away for the weekend. Every decision you make, you you have to keep in mind, do we have the money? And it's sort of also yeah, it's not something you're proud of. So, what do you say? What do you do? Do you always make an excuse? What do you do? And so, uh, we made this a game for people to experience in short in in really low levels, uh, what it's like. So, hopefully they have a little bit more empathy towards people who are in this situation. So for example, if you work at the tax office and this you you get in contact with these people that you can get bit more connected and be a bit more humane about their situation. So that's uh >> that's the goal of this game. Yeah. >> Nice. >> What's the role of AI in video game development and in video game experience? >> I don't know yet. I think it's too soon for me to tell. We use um we use AI as a uh um um sort of a um rubber ducking. So you have ideas, you put it in, it it gives you some ideas back. So like in Gemini, you can just talk to talk with it and it has a big collection of data which it can use. So it for us it's it comes up with yeah some things that we otherwise had to come up with ourselves. For example, if for a game we need like a 100 names >> a couple of years back we had to think about 100 names oursel. >> Now we just ask AI and get a list. Uh so that's really low level. But also if we do things in English then we can check the text. uh our English is isn't the the best. So we can check the text a little bit and then uh have it rechecked by mostly a native English speaker. But it makes it easier to get uh and in programming we use a little bit more like code completion uh small suggestions uh because we for now we want to control the code ourselves but yeah we're having discussions on how to use it how to integrate it uh and for example VIP coding um I think it's a great tool for uh prototyping so if you want to check something. If you have an idea and you want say, "Oh, maybe this works." Uh, you can quickly make a prototype, uh, show it to someone, see how they respond and then integrate it in your real system and learn from the code. Uh, but production ready code is definitely something different than VIP codes. >> So, that's what challenges does uh the barn have right now? Well, the challenge I think in serious games in general uh is the maturity of the of our market. So, there are a lot of serious games, a lot of custom serious games which are made for one client and then not used anymore uh or they just used in uh one company and we're not part of the the normal flow of companies to use games for all kinds of purposes. Um, so we need more more general purpose games I think to have a a broader outreach and a broader range of companies knowing about series games and have good good experience to games. So the challenge is more in in sales in in in in having a broad uh uh client base. Um, from a development perspective, um, people see AAA games which take up to 10 years to make. Look at GTA 6. I don't know how long they've been working on it, but it's crazy, but people see those games and and and and uh commercials about it and then they expect us to make something similar. It's possible with a budget like €20,000. You can't come even close. So does the the uh the expectation and the budgets don't really match at the moment. Yeah. >> Okay. So more sets. >> Yeah. >> And any lesson for the viewers that you would like to tell us about your journey? Um I think as a entrepreneur and and having my own company what we've always done is uh we we've done things we which we enjoy. So the barn is now 15 years old and uh we're a small company and we like it that way but we have fun every day. So for me that's the most important thing. So we we take the the assignments which we like. Uh um we strive to have the best possible experience for players. Uh and uh that makes our clients happy. And I think um yeah, if you start a company, you need to find your way. That's what we've done as well. Uh try experiment a little bit with what you like and then do and go for for the for what your >> Yeah. Most uh >> Yeah. >> your motive is what your motive. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Have fun and do it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And last question, any connection that you would like to get from uh our network or from the viewers and the audience? >> Yeah. We're always looking for new clients. So uh >> which kind of clients then municipalities organization which kind of organization? >> It doesn't really matter for us. >> So as a game as a serious game de developer one of the most most fun things is um getting into the material of our client. So we know about games [music] clients know about their world. So, for example, about this VR game, we had to figure out what it's like to be in this situation. What are realistic uh households for this situation? What are realistic uh incomes? Uh so, we had to del Yeah. Um and for example, for another client, um we have to learn about policy. So, how is policy made? Uh what do you do with it? Uh and how does it influence the world? So uh but we have to become sort of the mini experts on this. Uh >> you also have companies not only >> Yeah. Also companies companies that want to >> Yeah. >> So um the subject matter doesn't matter to us. Uh it's whether we are able to find a game solution whether it's digital whether it's uh physical. >> Physical. >> Yeah. Um to help those clients with their problems. Yeah. Amazing. Well, that was it. Thank you so much for the interview. >> Yeah. Well, I have to tell. Thank you. So, question investology and also please Anybody >> Bastian from Steam Brook? Hello. >> Can you tell us a bit more about Steam Brook? >> Yeah, Simbrook. Seam Brook. We we found out that there's a lot of uh potential in virtual reality and augmented reality. But we also found out that in order to create your first uh prototype, you need around 3 to five months of development, custom development with specialized people. And we wanted to bridge that gap to make that available to uh for example education who is not able to pay for that amount of uh money, right? Uh so we wanted to make that available to them uh in the way that we also have made available website development to just a marketeer for example. Marketeteer is not a technical person but uh that person can still create a website by just going to WordPress or Squarespace or something like that and within 10 minutes you have your first website. We wanted to bring that to virtual reality and augmented reality. So 6 years ago we made a prototype. Uh we started out with 360° uh photos and videos and just so you can make uh your own adventure for example. Uh and now 6 years later it got a little bit out of hand and created the complete uh interactive environment with which you can create your own experiences, rich interactive experiences. It's completely web- based. We built the technologies ourselves. Um, so it's works on the Pico headsets, it works on Quest headsets, it works on Android devices, iPhone devices, everything. >> How do you see AI in your product? >> Well, uh, we don't want to integrate AI directly in our product. So, what we think we should do is create integration points in Streamrook that makes it possible to then integrate with AI. So, you the user can choose which AI you want to use. for example. So if you want to use entropic or if you want to use mistrol if you are more Europe minded for example you can choose yourself which AI model you want to use and uh we want to be able to we want people to be able to to plug that in and use AI to create the experiences. Yeah. >> And you are proudly based in Europe and your technology is also made by yourself right? >> Yeah. Yeah. We uh we are not relying on Unity for example. We're not relying on any other library. We created the 3D engine behind it ourselves. We view ourselves as as a tech company. Um and the reason that we did it is because we have an intrinsic uh belief uh that uh technology should always be uh should always uh focus on the humanity of things. So AI for example, we don't want AI to uh take away the creative process. So we are meticulous about how are we going to implement AI in Cbook without giving away the creative process because that is that is a a human thing I think. So uh so we are thinking about that a lot. >> Yeah. >> And what challenges has Sim Group have right now? Well, of course, we are a startup. So, you always have the challenge of um uh are we working in a uh settled market for example or is this a developing market and I think this is still a developing market. So, it's it's uh the market last year was very different from what it is now. starting with for example those uh XR glasses that are coming out and I think that in the coming years those are becoming ma more mainstream. So um well 6 years ago we started out with virtual reality and right now we see that the smart glass is going to um change a lot of uh uh about how we few scene look. Yeah. >> Any lesson to the viewers regarding your journey? Um well what we did uh with Simbrook is that uh everything that we did was a wish from a customer. So we never thought well we simply want this feature to exist without really knowing that someone needs it. So everything that we built was a wish from a customer. And I think that is um that is very important because otherwise you are maybe building something that people don't want. >> Exactly. and any connection that you would like to have from uh connector from uh the viewers from LinkedIn. >> Yeah, of course. I'd like to know from people uh do they think about uh these technologies about XR and what uh um smart glasses are going to uh mean for them for example in the future >> specific connection of a person or a group of people that you would like? Um well educators >> educators okay yeah uh primarily those who are working in innovation so if you are working in a innovation lab or an experience lab or something like that and you're thinking about these technologies smart glasses AI and how you combine them please reach out and I want to talk to you >> amazing thank you so much for the interview and as the last thing I think we can show maybe a bit about the product so with the camera of course so let's let's get here. So yeah, this is Seam Brook. This is a complete um integrated environment. So you don't have to install an app or anything. It's completely web- based. You just go to seambrook.com and you create your own accounts and you can create your experiences right away. And this is one of the demos that we did. Uh we added some uh some items, we added some animations and um we did this in around 10 minutes, right? So uh it just shows that the speed with which you can create things. But if you want to >> maybe you can show how you build something uh with this, I think. >> Yeah, sure. Uh what I can do for example is I can uh go to my library of uh of 3D models and I have some animated models here. For example, a firefighter. I place it here. And a firefighter has an animation, right? It's an animation of him being uh idle. Then I go to object, which is the scene itself, and I can create an interaction that if the scene starts, I want that animation of that firefighter to run indefinitely. And if I uh created that and I click preview, it works instantly and it just works and you can publish it and send it to other people and they can play with it uh right away. You see one. >> Hello Natasha. >> Hi. Uh can you explain us about what do you do? What is 4DR studios? >> Okay. Yeah. Well, 4DR Studios captures real people like you and me and uh transports them to the virtual world with all uh looks like the wrinkles I lived 50 years for uh to capture them and um uh what you get in the end is a real person in the virtual world. They where you um see all the communication that you do. So all the non-verbal communication as well as >> um you know the way I look and the way I move and that's really important. >> How is it done with with machinery or with >> So it's a capture stage. Um, it's a green basically a really big green bucket with 48 cameras that are all synced and uh we take uh 48 pictures 60 times per second and we render that into a 3D model and you can do that using either uh a well traditional uh voluometric capture uh workflow or you can do that using gshian splat pipeline. >> What is voluometric capture for the viewers that don't know? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a it's a new content type. Um, it's a combination of a uh 3D model and video. So, it's video quality, but it's actually 3D. So, once you have it, you can put it into a virtual environment and uh you can have a camera go around it or you can relight it or um users can watch it from all sides. So once you see a real like a voluometric person in VR for example um your mind tells you this is this is real um and and you see that this is something that we found in our research the negative effects that you have in VR like nausea cyber sickness kind of thing it is reduced when people meet an actual person because once we see apparently it's something that we are biologically programmed once we see an actual person. We buy the environment. We believe that it's real. And that's a really interesting find that we are we're doing more research to find out what is actually happening. Like is it really the volumetric or was it something that we did by coincidence totally not related but um we have a a pretty good understanding that it will be uh caused caused by the voluometric video. And how was this kind of capture done in the past? This 3D video rendering, right? How was it? >> Well, in the in the past, you you couldn't have it, right? You you could have a a normal green screen, but then it's 2D. So, once you start moving, you see that it's not real. And once the illusion breaks, your story breaks. And uh so you had to have a lot of tricks for to uh prevent people from finding out that the person in the story was only 2D. So once you don't have to take that into account anymore, you have a lot more possibilities to tell your story, >> which uh well, you told me you are a few studios in the world doing this, right? You are one of them. Can you tell us how many are you? Um, well, there's only a few that do it on the level that we do and uh they're basically uh a couple in America uh and there's one in the Netherlands >> and we're the best of course >> and sure. And which kind of clients do you have? >> Um yeah, it's um it's quite diverse. Um we do for example living history because if you have to uh animate as an alternative uh the historical clothing that is very expensive while we just film it and then it's perfect. Um we do entertainment so like um music um uh athletes and gaming. So we did the the seven guest well in the cut scenes but in the seven guest the ghosts are actual people and uh everybody believes that the ghosts are real. Um and if you go for music or athletes uh it's really really cool to uh be able to uh shoot some penalties on Unai Simon for example um or uh play a gem together with Steve V. Um, and it's these people uh it's uh it's very hard to animate that because if you have for example Messi, everybody recognizes messy. So if you put in an animation, it's not messy. If you put in a an AI generation, it's not a real person, right? So what makes us human is that we communicate with a lot more than only our voice. Um there's something going on all the time and you don't have that when it's an AI. So we capture authentic people to do that. So that was the second one. Uh we have fashion. Obviously when you capture uh clothing that it moves exactly how it moves in the real world. you don't have to think about translating uh the movement of fabrics into a digitized version. No, you just film it and that's actually what it does. There's no lie uh in between. And um the the fourth um application area is trainings, especially trainings where uh there's uh communication skills involved. So recognizing how somebody responds to you. Uh being able to scan a crowd um uh safety trainings um like 60% well depending on who you talk to 60% of dangerous uh or accidents uh happen because of human behavior. So capturing that behavior is what we do and then you can bring it into a virtual world. But it's all about the response of people like this. It's the same for a training on a holographic patient. Um, you have a mannequin, a phantom patient and uh they can produce all the uh things that go wrong with you, right? High blood pressure, low blood pressure, what have you, blood sprouting out. Um, but we project an actual patient over it. So you can see the breathing changing uh the discoloration happening or um uh the way people respond to pain and that's something that you cannot build into a mannequin. Plus a mannequin looks the way they do. If you put on a digital overlay of a patient, um you would um have uh black people, brown people, white people, yellow people, purple people, fat people, very skinny people, old people, very young people, um all different types with one physical mannequin. So there's a huge cost uh savings there as well. >> So those are basically Um, >> it's all over the place. >> All over the place. >> Yeah, it's all over the place. >> And what's the origin of 4DR Studios? How did you come up to become one of the few studios that does voluometric capture? Yeah. Well, it actually started out uh 15 years ago uh when I started a company, Dutch Rose Media, and um I saw uh I I was writing blogging under the name Dutch Rose, like ever since the '90s. And uh I wrote a blog about augmented reality and uh in that blog I saw a person scanning the wall in the subway. And by scanning that wall, he was actually ordering the products that were on the poster on the wall and I saw a new technology uh partner in England. >> So I thought, huh, that's an interesting combination, this augmented reality thing that's really going to do something. So I started this company and uh during the years we actually learned that we were telling stories in 3D. And when you tell stories in 3D, you also have to have people in 3D. And then somebody in my team came up with a a demo of what we what turned out to be voluometric video. So we called the company that provided that technology for the views and we asked them who's doing this in the Netherlands because we want to be able to use that technology and they said nobody. So I thought well let's take a leap of faith and uh I worked for about two years to get together all the funding and then uh we started uh our own voluometric capture studio. >> So we use it in our own projects but also people can use it uh for their own project. We don't have to do everything. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um >> how do you see the future of XR augmented and virtual reality for Um I think that the benefits are so large that we will solve everything that is keep holding us back right now. So availability of headsets, quality of headsets like the hardware that will be solved and I think it's more important to think about how can those type of solutions help us once we can uh prove the value of what we create. There will be incentive to solve everything else. So I see a lot of benefits happening uh especially in not having to travel. So environmental impact um but also in change of perspectives you can have any perspectives you can uh use um uh uh like really hazardous environments. Uh so you can in uh in education you can really do a lot and on the VR side on the augmented side um well basically what you do even already today or for the last 15 years with your mobile phone you look at the world and you make it a little bit more beautiful and that's what the world needs. >> Okay. And do does 4D Studios have any challenges and which challenges are those? Um yeah, the challenges are still uh the investments. Um when we started uh we managed to get together the investment to buy all the hardware equipment. Um at some point in time you need to upgrade or replace your system. So we're looking for a next round of investments uh to be able to uh yeah keep doing all the work. >> Okay. and any lesson for the viewers that you would like to tell about your journey. >> Um, make sure that you have fun today. Uh, because it might still be a long time before this becomes mainstream and um, you have Yeah. If you don't have fun today, then you will never have the stamina to keep up doing it. >> Okay. And last question and ask for a connection. Any kind of people would you would like to meet or a specific one? >> Yeah. Um what we do a lot is we connect with innovators in different um uh areas, different industries to uh together develop what is the value for your industry of this technology because we cannot like we are generic. how we create virtual people like authentic virtual people. Um we cannot understand each and every industry. So we need connections to the innovators in all the industries to find out okay where do you need authentic people in a virtual world. >> Amazing. Well, we will try to provide them. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Yeah.

It was my hobby 3D printing. I always found that manufacturing through 3D printing is really nice since you can really uh create objects uh with the material that they really need. We won a pitch competition which uh made us think you know what we could either just go to classes and kind of go through the curriculum and finish the masters. We can make it a really practical masters with a business. Yeah, you might like the product that you design, but what will the world think about it? Managing that uh conversation in order to make a product that can be then sold uh to everybody in different parts of the world is a really nice uh challenge to to tackle. Took over this challenge of beyond bounds. creating a company in the Netherlands coming from a different country from Mexico is uh the government will end my my visa and with that I have to find a job to that offers me sponsorship in order to stay in the country. The start of visa that the Dutch government gives you is one year and that one year expires in August. If you have a job you have to dedicate that 100%. I was working seven days a week and set on an objective. And it wasn't until the the math uh and the timeline were just not gonna work out that I decided, you know what, I have to have a conversation with my co-founders. I would say uh product management or uh product development are two roles that I think I am really qualified for. pitching a product to people that have no understanding of a technology like it's 3D printing there's so many misconceptions about the technology that it looks plasticky that uh can you develop a final product with this technology you came here as an immigrant you also became president of the entrepreneurship master right >> yeah then you integrated with the language and then you built a business >> I'm looking for uh an opportunity here to continue working in the Netherlands um either in sales roles uh technical aspects uh product management product development I think I'm a really capable guy that can uh connect people together and leverage uh the best qualities of different peoples in the team and uh yeah really happy to to set things off in a company that can see me work for the next five plus years. So give me a call Hello. >> Hello. Pleasure. >> So tell us, Jose, what's uh what do you do? >> So I'm a mechanical engineer. Uh I specialize I guess in uh product design, but as a founder of a 3D printing design studio, that involves much more. Uh it goes from ideation of a product to really bringing that product uh into manufacturing and then uh troubleshooting that design for scalability, printing it and then uh assembling it, checking quality, uh looking at leads and then of course uh sending it out to customers. So uh it just comes with the title of entrepreneurship. I guess uh it's a little bit of a jack of all trades, but uh never trying to lower quality for for speed. You really want to look at everything like that. And that's a little bit in a fast way what I do. >> What's the origin of uh beyond bounds? >> Uh Unbounds is a company that we came up a concept. It was my hobby 3D printing. Uh I always found that manufacturing through tree printing is really nice since you can really uh create objects uh with the material that they really need. I always say that if you picture a block of wood and you want to make a chair out of that, you have to chisel away everything until you end up with a chair. Uh when you 3D print, it's kind of the opposite. you kind of just create it at that final shape with of course some a little bit of waste material but practically speaking it's much less material that reducing that full block of wood especially in the industry of furniture there's I think a lot of uh fast furniture uh you could think think that as fast fashion uh stuff that is made uh to see suit the needs rather quickly of people and then um discarding that to decide. So I think 3D printing uses materials that can be recycled so there can be a second life to those materials and uh furniture because I thought it was um it takes time to make good furniture. So 3D printing kind of also takes some time and it's nice in that sense that the industries overlap in that. >> Which kind of materials does BS recover? Yeah. So we use PLA uh ABS or ABS we try to use much less but PG um wood furniture wood uh filament sorry with up to uh 30 to 40% recycled wood that is like wood dust uh we use um PG material that you can see in plastic bottles for instance >> and PLA is um material that is biodegradable biodegradable under the right circumstances. So, uh it really depends on weather and stuff, but it also lends itself to to kind of be um used in a more prototyping fashion for per se. >> Okay. How was the journey of uh Beyond Bounce? >> Well, Beyond Bounce, it was an interesting journey started in the in the classroom in the entrepreneurship masters. Uh and there we won a pitch competition which uh made us think you know what we could either uh just go to classes and kind of go through the curriculum and finish the masters we can make it a really practical masters with a business and we kept that idea going uh and that went until after we graduated also we uh register in the cafa in the Netherlands making it an official business and and yeah it has been one story, one challenge after another and I could probably talk about that for a day. >> Which kind of milestones have you reached with Beyond Boss? I assume from a university project you started winning pitch competitions. >> Yeah. >> Which other milestones did you achieve? Uh I think from a product designer perspective uh coming to a final design and freezing that design that uh suits all the uh aesthetics of the other co-founders was a really interesting milestone because it meant that we had an MVP something that we could show out to people and not just uh do a pitch presentation with a PowerPoint, right? uh but rather actually uh give to uh audiences something tangible uh something that you could always see how people reacted to like oh is this 3D printed that was really nice uh kind of lesson and milestone and then putting that into practice with a Kickstarter uh campaign uh taking that out to the world basically and yeah you might like the product that you design but what will the world think about it and having around uh almost 160 orders around there uh that we had to make into reality as well. Uh well that was a big milestone and and fulfilling those orders as well as you can imagine but yeah it has been um now that I see it like this it might sound pretty uh uh easy now that I look at it but in reality the many challenges that went into getting each of those is uh also uh could talk about that for a day. >> What was your role in the whole company? >> In the company I was the CTO. So basically I looked at uh the 3D uh model cats uh making them in the studio. Then also I have an affinity for photography and also I guess that it's in like that product placement kind of aesthetic. So I also helped uh with that. I talk to the designers because we work with designers from across the world and they might have a really creative way of looking at lamp per se but then editing that lamp into something that can be scalable that is something that I also had to deal with uh and that uh was always an interesting conversation. You always want to be respectful of others ideas, especially with artists. But being managing that uh conversation in order to make a product that can be then sold uh to everybody in different parts of the world is a really nice uh challenge to to tackle. >> Okay. And well, we are here for a reason. You have a big challenge coming up. >> Yes. >> Can you tell us a bit more about that challenge? >> Yes, of course. I uh took over this challenge of beyond bounds creating a company in the Netherlands coming from a different country from Mexico and that is also has u more challenges than the ones that are just starting your own business. You're dealing with a different language. You're dealing with um just a different market and how people react to to pitching a product. uh but also with the uh constraints that the government places on you as an immigrant. It's not that they are a surprise. you know what you're signing uh yourself to and the challenges that you have to to overcome and I couldn't happily say that I overcome all of them but one uh to a certain degree and that is one that is just the amount of money that you have to make with your company uh in order for the government to say that your business is good for the future and you can u keep on working on it. I have co Dutch co-founders. So uh I am happy that the company will continue. uh but at the moment it has to continue without me is uh the government will end my my visa and with that I have to find a job to that offers me sponsorship in order to stay in the country which uh it's something that I want to do and yeah it's a different new uh set of uh of challenges that I have to overcome and uh I'm facing them with a smile and optimism >> which is the timeline that you have for this >> the start sort of visa that the Dutch government gives you is one year and that one year expires in August. So I have until August in order to to find something that doesn't mess with my with my uh legal uh business kind of permit. >> You were uh working at Von Box. why you didn't found a job or you didn't get it. >> Uh I was fully invested in the in the business trying to um tackle all those bullet points that the government sets for you in order to stay. So of course I was busy doing that. Uh if you believe in something, you have to give it your all. And besides that, I was working two part-time jobs. Uh these ones are uh just your basic like hurka like a bartending uh in the weekends and also at uh selling u kitchens through two-hour appointments which also developed a lot of my Dutch but uh yeah I was working seven days a week and set on an objective and it wasn't until the the math uh and the timeline were just not going to work out that I decided you know what I have to have a conversation with my co-founders uh they knew to a certain extent the the situation but when we sat down and looked at it we all agreed that if we I would like to stay and they would like me to stay then we have to take a certain pivot to things >> just out of curiosity how many more products would you have to sell or pilots in order to >> Yeah it's the the government sets a a limit of I think like €1,600 per per month as a salary, but we are three co-founders and it's um it's uh the the government does look at the finances of that. So you have to make sure you achieve that and we I would say we are in track to to make that. is just at the current pace it requires more time that what the one year that I have received and although that is a shame it's the reality of things and yeah you just have to deal with certainties and optimism can take you to a certain distance right you have to look at the math as well >> so on top of that like so you took the risk >> and on top of that you also know that you are integrated here in this country >> so So it's a shame that you cannot uh stay and continue taking the risk, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Same problem. >> But we have to look at the optimistic one. >> Yeah. 100%. 100%. Yeah. It's just uh that optimism has shifted into uh different challenges that I have to to face. >> How do you see the job market right now in the Netherlands? >> I think that it's a interesting question. I think um it requires a different uh mentality uh uh and really different approach that perhaps it was required uh 10 15 years in the past. I think right now it's really a numbers game and you have to really understand what do you want but at the same time not be afraid to to send your your um applications out there in creative ways. And what what do I mean by that is that yeah you can look at their traditional methods uh nowadays like LinkedIn uh or going to the website for applications but I think the what really gets the the chains moving is uh reaching out to people um people that you have encountered for me in the masters uh throughout my stay here people that I have um served while being a bartender and hey do you remember me and kind of just in people in my internship ship and really uh leveraging those those connections that you have made and if you have made those connections in a truly human way and uh with good faith I think that really uh makes people remember you in a good light and makes people just have you in their mind. So perhaps somebody then uh sends uh I know this person maybe you can talk to him and they getting that first conversation I think is the most important thing about the job market right now. It's uh if not you're everything's digital so you have to find that human element. >> If you will find a job how would you compenate it with the startup will you still be a founder or >> well I would I would um how can I answer that if you have a job you have to dedicate that 100%. uh what you do in your free time is your free time. But I think that uh the challenge at hand is um pro hitting your your your KPIs, hitting your objectives, uh establishing a good relationship with your co- uh workers, with your manager and then what you do in your in your free time then is up to you. But also a job might demand that in your free time you develop skills or certifications that will see you develop in that field. So you have to uh put things into perspective uh put them in a scale and see how you can uh navigate that. But uh I really think that it's never good to burn bridges. I think it's always good to keep those uh people that you have uh worked with in a conversation kind of setting. So yeah, I think it goes from a case to case basis. >> Which kind of jobs do you think based on your skills will you be excel in? >> Yeah. Um I would say uh product management or product development are two roles that I think I am really qualified for. But uh also I have found that in the last year and a half um pitching a product to people that have no understanding of a technology like it's 3D printing there's so many misconceptions about the technology that it looks plasticky that uh can you develop a final product with this technology uh and then being able to communicate that the reality of things and then seeing the light spark in their eyes I find is really interesting and what I go by that is that for instance sales roles as a uh technology um sales representative or SDR roles are really something uh that I find really appealing at the moment as well. Yeah. And any lesson for the viewers based on the whole journey you came here as an immigrant you also became president of the entrepreneurship master right? >> Yeah. >> Then you integrated with the language and then you built a business. So from the whole story any >> yeah I think uh if I can leave people with something is that it's always important to be yourself but at the same time to present yourselves to others that might sound simple but in reality if you uh talk to people even if they might uh have um I don't know here in the Netherlands sometimes people have uh really old groups groups of friends that are go that everybody's is Dutch. Make yourself be heard by them. Introduce yourself. Offer part of your culture at the same time as you're embracing theirs. And there's a a moment that people uh will be like, "This guy's too stubborn not to have a conversation with." And you'll be surprised the amount of friends that you can generate from putting yourself in that in those situations. Uh not with just uh co-workers but with your manager but with the president of the university with uh the president of uh certain thing that you find uh interesting. I don't know really is about just putting yourself out there in the circles that you want to be uh heard by. >> Okay. So, well, last question is always any connection that you would like to get. I think it's pretty clear, but if you you can have the camera if you want. And >> so guys, well, they asked for a connection question. >> Okay. >> Well, uh I'm looking for an opportunity here to continue working in the Netherlands. Um either in sales roles, uh technical aspects, uh product management, product development. I think I'm a really capable guy that can uh connect people together and leverage uh the best qualities of different people's in the team and uh yeah really happy to to set things off in a company that can see me work for the next five plus years. So give me a

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out of 100 million uh fund we're going to make potentially 14 to 17 investments >> because I love music uh and I wanted to allow anybody to I thought anybody should be able to experience music >> the the companies that need a certification is when they're selling especially to larger uh enterprise customers this is for sure an entry ticket >> everybody's trying to find a way to cover when things are going wrong instead of thinking how we can make is the same >> and how can we trust that you have security in place and you say oh we don't have that then they're going to say please come back next year when you have it >> it's beautiful and you can see the song unfold in a visual way >> hello >> hello >> what's your name and what do you do >> my name is Paul Buring and I'm the founder and CEO of Cyber Juice >> what does Cyber Juice do >> Cyberjuice is a platform a software platform where we help startups and smaller companies when they are met with the security requirements from their customers. Customers are asking are you certified with ISO 27,0001 or sock 2 or something else then they come to us and we help them get certified without getting a headache. >> Which organizations management manages the issuance of these certifications? that is certified like authorized certified bodies that will give you the actual stamp. I used to explain this like if you're going to get a driver's license, you go to the school to learn how to drive and then you go to the authorities to get your actual to go to the exam and get the actual driver's license. So, we're the driving school and then someone else can give you the actual stamp. >> Are these certifications uh needed to be renewed each year? >> Yes, that's an excellent question. So uh you you have every year you have a reertification so someone comes and check are you still doing things right and is everything in place >> which is the origin of these certifications are the governments pushing for a kind of security framework or or which is the >> so there's a lot of regulations um these uh these days from the EU especially so that is not specifically for certifications but certifications also help to show that you're compliant towards the law and regulations. >> Which kind of h technical aspects are usually covered in this certification? Is it data data let's say storage EU versus US? Is about security against hacker attacks like which are the kind of >> it covers pretty much everything. It's like a broad um information security management system is what it's called. one the main certification that we help with. Um so it covers everything from technical aspects like have you uh do you have good passwords and encrypted hardest and is everything is access control in place. So all the technical aspects then it covers the organization. Do you have good governance structure in place? Is management actually backing up on this? Uh and then you have the uh the people aspect. Do your employees actually know how to have good security habits? Do they know to um not click links in emails, to not let people in the office who not supposed to be there, um to use good passwords and two factor authentication? So, it's it's everything. >> Do companies need to be certified at certain points? because I can imagine a lot of startups will uh start and really don't take a look at the certifications which is the point the time point where they need to be certified >> that's an excellent question um so I would start with saying not everybody needs to be certified so if you are a startup uh building a a product for consumers um your your customers probably don't know anything about these certifications. They still want to know that their data is secure, but then you just have good security practices. You don't necessarily need a certification for that. The the customers that the companies that need a certification is when they're selling especially to larger uh enterprise customers. This is for sure an entry ticket. It's like a license to operate as we say. So you are not going to get through procurement in a to a sales cycle without a certificate for the enterprise customers. So when you ask when do you need it? I would say you need it before you start serious uh sales cycles with enterprise customers. That's a good point. So don't start before you have built anything. You can do some pilots be before you get certified but when you start serious uh sales cycles that's um that's a point where you want to have the certification. >> Okay. and have new certifications been issued since this new AI wave of LLMs than akai I guess now there are new risks and new potential hacker attacks with these kind of technologies right >> yeah so um there is an ISO certification that is focused on AI companies as well so it covers like what you would expect from the more traditional certifications plus some AI um controls as as they're called and this one is called 4201. So there's an isolation for that as well and we have the EU AI act which is uh some of it is already u in place and some of it will come in the next year or so. So that's a law and you can say if you if you uh want to be on top of that well you need to of course understand what's what's in the what are the rules in the law but you can also get the ISO certification to help you have good governance and control around all your AI. >> So so far we we know that for getting enterprise clients you need a certification. What happens if you don't have the certification but you start working with any kind of enterprise? Are there any legal matters in that case or any outcomes that are negative for the >> So it's it's not a legal uh de like it's not a legal requirement that you need a certification. It's more of a market requirement. So what will happen if you go to an enterprise customer and say we have this amazing software product now give us all your data and we're going to help you. They're going to say where is your ISO certification and how can we trust that you have security in place and you say oh we don't have that then they're going to say please come back next year when you have it so that's what will happen you will meet the market demand >> okay and regarding your business what challenges does your business has right now >> so our biggest challenge right now is to get more leads >> okay yes more leads >> so can you send us some leads then that would be helpful >> okay perfect and any lesson that you will tell to the viewers based on your entrepreneurial journey. >> Yes, I have one that I actually learned from another uh founder that I really took to heart and that I think is very good to always remember and that is to stay as stupid and naive as when you started. >> It's uh yeah it's just a really good thing to always remember because it's the energy that keeps you going and keeps you resilient. >> Amazing. And any connection that you would like to have? Well, I want to say Barack Obama, but um I would like some >> we we don't have it yet in the network. >> Well, you don't know that. You don't know that. You might be a second order connection of someone. >> Very soon. Very soon. >> Um I would just like to be connected to uh founders that have this problem and want help because we are really focused on being the best solution for startups. like it it really isn't should be a no-brainer to come to Cyberduce if you have any kind of compliance problem whether you're an AI startup or a SAS startup we have we can help you with your compliance work so I hope you can spread this out to a lot of uh founders and early stage companies that um that want our solution >> perfect we will thank you so much >> thank you and thanks for asking for the interview >> hello hi what's your name and what do you do >> I'm Nicolola I work for Criselix uh as an analyst, investment analyst. I Criselix is an early stage venture capital firm that is based in Vancouver and uh the Netherlands. So we have our main office in Vancouver and then we open an office back in 2018 in the Netherlands because the Tudel University was one of the partner of our four fund and our main focus is mostly engineering firm and deep tech startups. So we invest in this deep tech startups from different sector. So yeah >> which is the ticket size or >> so we have a pretty specific investment model. So our limited partners so the investor in our fund are big corporations. So that can span from different sectors but yeah we can share there some name about we have Mitsubishi Tachi Kur Lion Delbel Ibonic as a chemical companies SCG which is another cement company and basically we understand with them like a problem in the industry in their industry problem that uh we think are relevant to solve a bottleneck in their value chain and then from that side we go back to the startup world and innovation and try to find a solution uh for for that specific problem. A problem that is mo mostly for uh the whole the whole industry not specifically for that partner uh and that's what makes uh the impact for us. So we usually try to be the first investor in a company uh investing 1 to 2.5 million as a first ticket uh taking ownership between uh 20 to 30% and uh leading investing almost every time and uh and then we have the capability to follow up rounds uh with uh later on investment >> which is the main challenge that corporates have when acquiring a VC backed uh firm >> when in acquiring. >> Yeah. So when when the BC wants an exit which is the main struggle there >> well you have to arrive to an exit. So first of all uh it's a whole path through through the exit. So I would say everything that is before the exit it's uh it's already quite challenging. So first of all uh it's everything in the problem you're trying to solve because uh most of the startups especially founders especially technical founders uh they usually look for technology they work on a technology and they find application for that technology uh while I would like to challenge the founders to really uh find a problem that is worth to solve uh not only in terms of size but also in terms of uh why why people cares about that and uh it's important that the founder has the vision of about his company and what he wants to achieve but it's also really important that uh the problem that the technical founder is trying to solve actually work and uh in terms of exit it's uh it's really it's in the deep tech it's a it's it's it's a different thing so it's very rarely that you're going to have an IPO so it's most likely that you have a strategic acquisition from big partner so that's why it's also really important that you try to understand as soon as possible how the industry play who can be interested in this technology and how and why and who can be the potential acquirer. So when we look at a company even very early stage uh we try to understand who's going to be interested in this technology or for example even in which scale because uh maybe for you don't need to scale to use size or in terms of plans and capabilities maybe have to demonstrate the technology and then you have an industrial partner that is already uh once the technology is the risk is is already interested in uh in uh in buying acquiring the company. So you can actually build a thesis around doing an early exit from the company uh if if the industry allow you to. So yeah it really depends on the industry and depends a strategic partner but yeah it's actually changing the industry is a way but changing the industry from the inside is also really really I think something really important that's what we're trying to do because the the thesis of our fund is the decarbonization uh of the industrial asset but the carbonization of industrial assets through uh industrial efficiency. So we targeting every solution that potentially can have an impact in creating value, reducing cost, reducing CO2 impact, reducing uh energy intensive stuff because that's where the value is locked and that's where also the emissions uh are most of the time. >> How many companies does the fund source and how which is the percentage of companies that pass through and are available to pitch to the fund? >> Oh, okay. We have a a database uh where every founder can apply and uh which have that all of our LPS have access also to so it can also give them visibility to the LPS they can have visibility to these investors that might have some power to invest on their own and uh that's potentially like around 2,000 per year something like that in terms of numbers and uh we made out of 100 million uh fund we're going to make potentially 14 to 17 investments usually. So yeah and you're going to see 2k startups per year. Uh then you try to see which one of them match. Then we have 1 hour call with the founder try to understand a little bit more and uh and then but the due diligence process is really long for us. So usually can take even a year even for an early stage company on a small tickets like this and uh so because we also we are a small team so and we go a lot deeper into the technical uh details the IP details and uh so the due diligence gets along so I would say not so many will pass the bar and the bar is pretty high and it's important for us to keep the bar high because uh that's when you show consistency see in through doubts all the funds that uh my company and our VC firm is one of the longlasting in uh in deep tech was founded in 2000 so it's we raising our fit fund so it's really important to show consistency to the investor and that's why the bar is super high so what's a red flag that you can find when a company shows up to you >> well I would say again it's sometimes startups they think about what the investor would like to see. Um but sometimes they they have no clue in the sense that uh sometimes they show you uh technical details. I can do this faster. I can do this cheaper. I can do this better. But it's not important if no one cares about that advantage. So for example, I was talking with a company that it was making a new cement materials and they were saying I can my cement materials can dry faster two times faster and then I actually call a customer a potential user of that of that material and it was like yes but I build a wall then I leave it dry and in the meantime I'm building other walls so I don't care if it takes one day or three days to do it. So that's a technical advantage but no one that doesn't unlock anything. So the real important when I'm saying solving a problem that matters is really about solving um a problem that can unlock value. So uh something a piece of data that is missing in in some sort of processes that when you unlock that you can attach that to some big decision making um process that can unlock some value increase the throughput increase the plant capacity reduce the energy cost and it's also so important it's so very important for uh specifically also for the industry and for potential acquirers and corporations that it's not only about reducing the cost but it's creating the strategic value. Uh so there is so many example and so many nuances but it's really try to find a niche problem that have an impact a big impact. So that's no one focus around there is less competition and it's really about that understand a problem really deeping with a technical analytical eye scientific eye to go deep you know into a problem and and and understand it and then try to use the engineering world to solve that problem instead of like use the engineering world create a problem and uh and then solve the problem with your technology. So I would say more program driven less technology push uh especially for some of the VC then if that's our investment model of course there are some type of innovation where of course a technology push uh can work and there's plenty of cases but yeah depends for for a VC for a VC like us it's really important that because it's actually show that you can grow you can have return on >> what's the difference of investors in Vancouver in Canada and in Europe >> wow that's uh that's something that we see every day. Um I would say Vancouver in general, Canada is uh has a bit of North American mindset. So uh they're less risk adver like less risk adverse than than us. And also culturally they're more close to North America also about this and people is actually thinking entrepreneurally like I I would like to build the company and they they they know what's the entrepreneurship story should be here in Europe especially in innovation but in every in every any piece of the of the ecosystem there is a lot of risk adversion and you can see that in in deal terms it's not friending and neither for the investor nor for the for the founders uh everybody's trying to find a way to cover when things are going wrong instead of thinking how we can make this succeed. So and then then it's a reflection that that is reflected then in the in the term sheet and uh in the regulation in the all the bureaucracy that you have around uh permitting for first of a kind plans it's it's really important it's really slow it can take some time while in the US maybe you can you have different regulation or you don't have regulations I would say it's better to it's good to have regulation but there should be different regulation between the fast pace of a startup and the fast pace of early stage companies compared to the pace of uh the rest of innovation or corporates innovation or in general. Uh so that's that's really really something that I miss and then the other big difference of course is the market and um in Europe you have different markets in US and Canada you have one big market and one language while here you have a lot of nuances a lot of different regulations so open a market in the Netherlands and then move to Germany is a completely different game then you have to move to the N the Nordics add some other risk and can slow down the pace so uh of course like Europe is moving towards like having like a more share regulation and stuff but it's really also about the different stage that should be like adoc uh regulation for different stages of the company I would say >> any lesson for the viewers that you would like to mention >> well in founders or whoever >> whoever >> fuel curiosity still have a lot of curiosity about stuff because uh it's it's what fueled the work. So it's really about keeping up the open the the eyes open and have curiosity every day to whatever it can be the policy can be a new founder can be a new love or a new company or whatever just have the curiosity to go and explore everything deeply because otherwise there's nowhere living and doing what we do. >> Nice. And any connection any for connection that you would like to get? Well, if you willing to approach the VC word, feel free to contact me on LinkedIn. And um a lot of stuff is it's difficult because a lot of stuff I realize in the VC work happen behind the scenes. So feel free to to to reach out potentially and the same for founders like we have uh our website where you can uh leave our pitch deck and uh your pitch deck sorry and uh yeah >> perfect. Thank you so much for the interview. No worry. Hello. >> Hi. >> What's your name and what do you do? >> Uh, I'm Jonah. I'm a tech entrepreneur. >> Which is your startup? >> Uh, it's called Dub Live. It's a music app. I'm aiming to make people be able to make music. Make it as easy as listening to it. >> How does it look like? >> Um, it's a sound canvas. So, if you think of something like Mirro, uh, where you have all these different shapes, um, double Live is a sound canvas. So you have lots of different shapes and each of the shapes makes different sound or has a different musical effect. You can touch and change and play and create music as you go along. >> What's the origin of this uh canvas idea? In which did you base your your idea and where do you think this is the approach that you want to take for your company? Well, it's a long question because uh I started making music apps a long time ago and it's just sort of been an iterative process to get to where it is now. Uh I suppose I've always had an interesting idea of uh if you're a guitarist, you have or or a musician, you have like muscle memory. You know how your fingers you play guitar and you your fingers know where they're going to go. I don't think very hard how to do it. If I could encode that knowledge into a into a visual interface, then anyone could take the same thing and and make it their own, >> if that makes sense. >> Okay. And when that pop, why why did you decide to facilitate this? Why did I decide to name? Because >> because I love music. Uh and I wanted to allow anybody to I thought anybody should be able to experience music. Um and I always wanted to make it social. I always wanted it to be um not just a thousand elite artists with a million fans, but a million people with, you know, a thousand fans or just their friends. It doesn't have to be a a perfect song to enjoy it. Um especially if you're making it in live in front. >> And what's the stage of the company right now? Which uh challenges do you have right now? >> The challenge is is kind of done. The challenge is gaining over the release anxiety being out there. This is this is actually uh the week I plan to launch, but I probably said that last week and the week before. >> Okay. So now it's time to launch. >> Yes. >> Which uh actions are you going to take to to launch? >> Well, obviously I have to like do all the QA, make sure it works, that kind of stuff. The steps beyond that, I have a a kind of a list of friends, a list of uh people that I know that would enjoy it, that I can that I know well and I can get intimate feedback from. So I would give it to them. um probably have some calls and work through things with them. Um that's and and and see how that goes. I'll probably change some things, loop that a bit and just grow slowly. It's better to have good feedback um quality feedback than just, you know, a thousand people used it, some people say some stuff. >> Are there any competitors that are doing something similar in the space? Do not mention them. I mean the road the road to social music technology making is littered with dead projects along the way. So it's a it's a kind of a difficult path. Um many people have tried to monocatize music um and it's it's it's uh failed many times. So in a way it's a risk. Um but I think I have some interesting ideas. Uh so one of them is making it visual. Like typically when you make a song, you make a song uh you share it and and you have a song file. What do you do with that? You can't load it onto you know Tik Tok or you know it's people we're in a visual society now. Everyone wants a video. So I've I've turned it by making it into sound canvas. It's beautiful and you can see the song unfold in a visual way. So instead of sharing a song, you show a video of that. Uh that's that's one way that I hope will enable people to kind of engage with it in a in a different way. >> So what do you think about AI in music? >> Well, I think it can be part of an interesting process, the way you use AI to explore things, but I think you the human has to be in the loop. Somebody sent me an Somebody sent me a list of AI songs. It was an app that you could make AI songs in and you could go to their gallery and people had made, you know, a thousand AI songs and I was like this the mo I could I couldn't even listen to one cuz I don't care like the value of it is close to zero when it's so easy. The the resistance to there's nothing to be impressed by. You know, you see someone climb a mountain or play some incredible piano, it's like really hard. that's impressive like to to to prompt something is not really impressive. >> Which is one lesson that you would like to give to the viewers. I think it's important to stay with your vision um and stick with that and not get distracted by other ideas or um I've studied a number of things that I think if I'd seen them through and kept going and given them the daylight that they deserved and got through the kind of some of the pain along the way um that belief would have seen it through and they would have been valuable. Um, and I think I think it's too easy too easy to get distracted by the next interesting idea. >> Okay. So, be true to yourself. >> Yeah. And and stay stick with stick with it. >> Stick with it. Okay. And any connection that you would like to get from the the the audience? >> Uh, I'd like to meet uh some amazing new musicians um the next generation that are going to make next next 10 years of incredible music. Perfect. Thank you so much for an

When you're building a startup, [music] I say this to people that interview, you know, it's not sexy. This is crawling over glass for [music] 5 years. This is late nights. This is jumping in when you're on call or when you're pushing to close [music] a customer's books. Like this is not a 9 to5. We started with doing just pitches with people. Uh and [music] uh we grow this for over 5 years and then we we started to do hackathons and then we had [music] summits, you know, we we started to do more things. One in six founders identifies as LGBT. One in six. That's the same as [music] the whole fintech industry. >> Well, do you have the ambition that you want to go world domination, but that's going to take [music] seven rounds of investment where, you know, net net you're going to be a 15% shareholder, but at a business that's going to be worth more than, you know, 1 to 5 billion. >> It's about people really. It's just finding the right people. uh and if you just have A+ players in your team. >> We believe that [music] LGBTQ founders uh are used to deal with [music] adversity. >> Hello, what's your name and what do you do? >> I'm Nick Kappa, the founder of Nano. We're an AI native financial services startup. >> Okay. Which kind of clients do you help? >> So, it's a good question. I think uh every business needs accounting, payroll, and tax. Um but we're super focused on SAS e-commerce and restaurants for now. I think these are businesses that get neglected the most from traditional accountants. So that's where we see we unlock the most uh value for. >> Why do this business get neglected from traditional accountants? >> So one I think it's not necessarily a segment problem. I think uh accounting is an industry that hasn't really evolved in the last 50 years. But I think if you're looking at specific use cases around e-commerce or or software companies or or restaurants, if you zoom in on restaurants, notoriously they have very messy books, meaning that the and they're also very margin constrained. So if you think about closing month end for restaurants, there's a lot of miscellaneous expenses and receipts uh particularly around petty cash which accountants can't necessarily always get the full context for meaning that uh either that it's too much of their time being spent for the billable hours that they can charge uh so they look at an industry where it's not necessarily profitable for them. >> Okay, we are here in the startup world cup event where a lot of startups pitch. Uh what do you think about the event and tech makers also organize it? So, I'm a big fan of TechMakers. Um, I love what they do. I think a lot of what we do at Nano stems around focusing on community. Um, so I think they've done an excellent job. I think the Startup World Cup is is allowing a lot of communities to find a platform and a vehicle to reach a status where they've seen on a global level. So, I think that's something that we're very passionate about at Nano. Uh, I think the the 10 finalists, uh, one of them being our customers, Gos, sorry that you didn't win. uh great business but uh I think that we we need more uh competitions like this I think we need more platforms where startups can showcase I mean if you think of 10 finalists you know there's probably about 50 startup founders actually in the audience and I think that everyone should get a a fair chance I think that everyone's taking the risk of building a company and that's why we love working with founders and supporting them but uh overall it was an exceptional event and I wish to see more of it >> nice and which challenges does Neno or which vision which challenges which is the path of an right now. >> Um I think challenges when when you're building at such a high velocity I think what's unique is that you know we're building a financial services company which involves accountants, payroll specialists, tax fiscalists but we're also building engineering technology. Uh both are equally notorious hard to acquire the top 1% talent. So I think uh we're growing faster than we can keep up with. At the same time you also need to find the best possible engineers and the same time the best possible accountants. And I think one thing is hiring someone that's a brilliant profession or has a great CV. Another thing is making sure that they're a culture fit. And I think when you're building a startup, I say this to people that interview, you know, it's not sexy. This is crawling over glass for 5 years. This is late nights. This is jumping in when you're on call or when you're pushing to close a customer's books. Like this is not a 9 to5. And I think that it's very hard making sure that we're attracting the right talent that understand the mission and and are equally bought into the mission. And I think that's what keeps me up at night. Is AI going to replace all of these professionals? >> So, no. I think that, you know, we look at the way that we build um agentic workflows around our accountants, it amplifies their work. It actually makes them more proactive. And I think that's the gap that we try and close where legacy accountants, you know, they take too long to respond. They don't really offer you factual advice. Whereas the way that we think about the value model is actually helping our accountants understand more context around the business but also to be able to be more proactive meaning that they can work on real-time intelligence but also build a system where if a customer comes you know via the platform for a question we can actually help them very quickly in understanding the context of their business and I think that's a big part of our operating model that we see nano being different in compared to traditional accounting firms. Are these erh accounting services worldwide standard or are depends >> accounting is highly regulated. Uh so in every specific region you need to be for example GAP in the Netherlands or GAP in the UK. So all of our accountants are professionally certified. I think that's very important particularly around the nuance on local tax. You know, EU is a very tribal uh state of or or group of states and I think that with every other market that we move into, you need the first two people that we hire as a certified tax fiscalist and accountant. >> Okay. So, it depends a lot. How did you started Neno? Like what's the origin point where you saw this pain? >> Uh I [ __ ] hate financial admin. I think it's the most mindless use of an entrepreneur's time. And I think that uh the underwhelming service providers that do the bare minimum just to keep you compliant is fundamentally broken. Um I think that uh business owners deserve better and they deserve more. Uh I've been through this journey myself. I've had to fire accountants. It's incredibly frustrating given like the hard-earned fees that you have to pay them. Um, and as someone that actually failed accounting going through Varsity, uh, it's a passion point where you turn something into something that you hate into liberating the professionals that actually do it in order to do an exceptional job. Um so for me it was less about actually building an accounting AI native accounting firm and more about actually solving real problems that I had to face myself and you know our fastest growing uh growth channel is referrals because more and more founders that we speak to that we see the same recurring themes and I think that this is not just a problem in the Netherlands like we know that this is a global problem not just stem from uh lack of accounting profession professionals but at the same time you know the tools that both accountants and founders are working with today they're just not equipped to serve them in a way that AI should and I think that's what we're changing. >> What makes Nano different? >> Um I think there's always a core saying that we think about at Nano which is be different and be excellent and I think that when you look at the gap between legacy tools both software and services and and and you think about the way that we think about building and what the future will look like I think the differences around how we think as a team collectively. I think it's very unique that you have accountants sitting directly to next to to engineers and that feedback loop is just accelerating every single day. But at the same time like we're super focused on the customers and I think there's this there's a saying too big to fail and I look at big firms or big accounting software companies like they're just too slow and they're not modernizing fast enough and I think our biggest differentiator is the speed and velocity at which we move at. >> Any lesson for the viewers that that are watching this >> um >> life lesson or entrepreneurial lesson? Any lesson? Oh jeez, I've got a lot. Um, I think if someone tells you to not start a company, don't listen to them. I think that everyone should go and believe that they have an entrepreneur in them. I think it just be patient uh in the way that you find your purpose. You know, I only figured out Nano where I was at a crossroads of either having to move countries or going back out into the job market or realizing that actually the silver lining is it's my time to build. So I think be patient around looking for those signals that that that are your kind of calling and and really invest in yourself with trying to figure out what your passion is because if you build something around your passion, you don't work every day. You know, you're doing something that you have a purpose for. And I think a lot of people struggle with finding what that purpose is because they're very impatient or they're simply not investing enough in themselves to actually realize what that true calling is. Okay. And any advice on how to raise funds for your startup? Yeah, got a lot of advice there. Um, I I think I'll speak from my own experience. I think that uh we're we're dealing in a in a two-sided market where everyone can become a builder. So, they're equipped with tools that were not available 5 years ago in order to go and build something that's presentable. I mean, I presented my uh preede round with a Figma demo and a slide deck. You know, I wasn't even equipped at then to go and build something that would have been like a working prototype. That being said, I think that um find the investors that align to your thesis. So don't waste time with investors in deep tech if you're launching a B2C app. You know, like look for people that are writing a lot about what you're building and have a genuine interest. Um you don't need an engineer today. You should invest in understanding how to build at least a working prototype and and find your first 20 customers. like prove that you're solving a problem that people are willing to pay for and prove that uh investors look at you know they will make randomized they will make 20 investments a year and they know that more than 80% are probably going to fail. So every single bet that they make they're thinking about will this generate outsized returns and if you're not pitching a product that investors can believe that this is the ability to deliver you know 20 30x investment that they're going to bet over the next 5 years that's not that's not VC backable. So I think that the question that you want to ask yourself is like what what type of master of your destiny do you want to be? Do you want to go the um bootstrap route and build a business that's profitable and sustainable but it doesn't need to hit a 10 15 20 100 million valuation or do you have the ambition that you want to go world domination but that's going to take seven rounds of investment where you know net net you're going to be a 15% shareholder but at a business that's going to be worth more than you know 1 to 5 billion. So I think it's picking the type of route that you want to go on and then uh being at peace with the fact that you know if you strip down a founders's role and this is just the reality like your job is to acquire resources delegate resources and generate outsized returns simple as that. It's very transactional and I think you just you know if you pick that route you need to be okay with the fact that that's what you're going to be doing for the next you know 10 20 years if you want to continue building something that's generational. Um, I think a lot of people don't actually understand what it means to have the accountability and responsibility as a founder to report to a board to understand that, you know, there's going to be multiple opinions that you may not feel are always on your side, but actually everyone in the room has genuine intent to make you succeed. Um, and also the fact that a company evolves. I know that I might not be the perfect CEO for this company in six years. You know, there might be someone better than me. And you also need to understand that your team will evolve too. someone that is brilliant right now might not be brilliant for the company in three years time. So your world and decisions is constantly changing and if you're someone that takes a lot of pride in making decisions and sticking with them and you're not open to change however hard that change might be whether it's for you or one of your employees or your team it's very tough to to find like consistency in that. >> Understood. And last to last question how do you incentivize employees? So I think your your so firstly your founding team should all have fair equity. Um they don't join you to earn a salary that would pay at Uber or Booking.com. And I think that if you're working in a startup and people are expecting high salaries like they need to understand or believe and and and commit to the fact that their long-term value is going to be in a potential exit one day. And we also know that like you need to be realistic. You know most startups don't make it past you too. So, uh, I think you need to be paid fairly with where the market is, but it also needs to be aligned to where you are as a as a startup. Like, you can't be paying high salaries if you're not even past the 1 million AR mark. So, you need to be very fair on equity um and generous and to make sure that people as you grow continue to unlock equity from your employee option pool. Um, I think that's very important. And you also need to make sure that as you grow, you're rewarding people that are high performers so they see their value and and you know, are in it as long-term investors as possible. And unfortunately the people that are not performers, you need to get rid of them as soon as possible. >> Understood. So last question. Any ask to the audience for a specific connection that you would like to have? >> Um, look, I love working with founders. So anytime that you believe your accountant is underwhelming or uh you should deserve more value from it, you have my LinkedIn, reach out to me. I'm pretty sure I'm know that we can help you. Um, and at the same time, like we love working with builders, you know, we want to make sure that we're supporting the people that are going out and and like racing to achieve their dream without taking on all the financial admin that no one ever wants in the first place. So, I think for me, it's about working with customers that we truly support and want to build with, but at the same time, like we want to build a sustainable business, too. >> Okay. Well, thank you so much for appreciate it. >> So, hello. What's your name and what do you do? >> I'm Fabian. I'm the founder and the chairman of TechMakers. So what's stick makers? >> It's a community of entrepreneurs. I think curious minds uh in Amsterdam for about 7,000 people now. Uh we started about five years ago and uh we had a beer tap machine and created a meetup and just invited people to come and share their story with us. >> And um how's the the event? How are you looking at the event? We are right now on this techmakers event also a startup world cup has collaborated. H what are your thoughts about all the startups? It's amazing because you know we've we started with doing just pitches with people uh and uh we grow this for over five years and then we we started to do hackathons and then we had summits you know we we started to do more things uh but you know it's just we found the right people who wanted to build this community with us like Cher who basically was doing this incredible event tonight >> which uh factor do you think has been the most determinant factor to grow techmakers that has able tech makers to grow. I think for me what's funny is that you have if you take the monthly pitches it's like 50% is the core people and 50 people 50% is just other people curious to come and check it out and I love that you know like uh just other people they're like hey what's going on you know and I'll go have a have a look I I just really love that and that curiosity I think it's uh I think the common denominator of that I think >> what kind of people come to tech makers >> um I think mostly builders, people who want to build stuff. Uh but I think people build in different ways. Uh but you know, I think like people would build for their own startup, but then you'll have also uh like maybe some investors who are also building or looking at builders. Uh you have incubators who are also like having a lot of people building over stuff there. uh and uh yeah it's quite a broad spectrum of people uh that just want to be like in the early stage uh phase of people figuring things out basically. >> Okay. And you also have a startup yourself right? You're a founder too aside from tech makers. >> Yeah indeed I build in more medical devices in in the AI around that industry. >> What's the startup name? >> It's called Fox Insights. >> Fox Insights. And what's a what's the product that you're building? >> Uh well technically it's a knowledge graph that orchestrates agents uh that helps you take your uh patent to patients basically because medical devices you know when they go to market the failure rate is uh is is is incredibly high because it takes a lot of time to figure out uh where you which path you need to take to to get to your patient. So FDA approval or uh you know uh European certification and stuff like it's very codified and very uh a lot of data out there. There's very siloed. Uh so we're trying to solve that problem. >> Okay. I see. And uh so far uh you're focusing in the European market I guess for the pay or >> no no actually our first uh clients are in the US. US >> actually we're trying to come to Europe and then it's like super messy you know you get your >> certification and you need to go to 27 markets it's like >> are you going to replace the patent lawyers >> not necessarily actually we're just giving them the tools to be more efficient as well uh so we just not have that tool we also have a marketplace where other experts can because science you know medical devices they go online but they go offline they go in in in clinical trials and then they come back online All that data is very much everywhere. So we build like a a brain around it that tells you you need to go there. >> And which challenges do you have right now either with tech makers or with your company the >> I think for me now like uh with time uh I'm my 40s now. Uh but I feel like uh it's about people really. It's just finding the right people. Uh and if you just have A+ players in your team all time, you know, it's uh it's uh you increases your chances of success. >> How do you identify A+ players? >> I don't know. I think there is, you know, like um the the most common denominator for me is like the the resilience. You need to be very resilient there. Um but depending on what you build, it needs to be like experts in those fields, right? Especially in medical devices. So to find like a blend of uh of entrepreneurs who've successfully been there before and people who have been good at actually scaling businesses as well and then the the the domain expertise in regulatory medical devices and stuff like that to build the brain basically. >> Understood. And any lesson you would like to give the viewers that are watching this? >> Um don't give up. Uh actually just talk to people also. It's surprisingly easy now to actually just talk to people, you know, just not online but also just go uh knock on people's door. I think that's the people love to talk about solving their problem and then you know they just find ways to just uh meet people face to face and a lot of people are building communities as well. So let's just find the communities of also people who are building in that space that can share experiences together. I think that's quite important. >> Amazing. And last but not least any ask for the viewers for the audience any connection that will you would like to get? >> I think if uh just come and pitch with us we know we we we like to meet any kind of curious minds that are building some cool stuff. >> Any founder >> yeah any founders who is building cool [ __ ] you know Amsterdam is a fantastic place for this. There's a lot of amazing people. I think even the Netherlands there's people coming from all sorts of places here you know from you know limber from Hingan you know that just you know just come and travel to meet our builders I think we should nurture that and Amsterdam is a crazy place for that so let's just do more cool stuff together >> amazing cool >> thank you so much for >> thanks man >> so hello what's your name and what do you do >> yeah my name is Sabinaso >> I'm a venture partner at Identity VC >> what does identity DBC do >> identity VC is a European preede seedstage venture capital fund >> and we invest in LGBTQ founders or LGBTQ uh in leadership in pre CH startups because we believe that LGBTQ founders are exceptional founders. >> How how did this uh fund originated? What was the when was the turning point? Well, the idea came from a very good example in the US. Um, and our founding partners still Klein and Johan Bhan. They saw this incredible success in the US and they say, "Well, there's not such a fund in Europe. So, let's create this community, this LGBTQ community of queer funders, queer founders, LGBTQ funders and founders in Europe because um we believe in the power of the LGBTQ community. It's very strong, very powerful. Um yeah, and that's what we do and we built according to the angels. Gangels is the US example that we have and it's very good uh successful fund. >> Is it difficult to manage or be part of a European VC because national okay but European how is the complexity in this type of VC? >> Um I'm not sure if it's if you can call it complex. We we have uh offices in London. We work from the Netherlands and we have a headquarters in Berlin and we have a lot of vent venture scouts working across whole Europe. So we are have boots on the ground. We have communities everywhere. We connect them and yeah the most difficult part is actually being LGBTQ is not something that you put in your deck, right? >> So um we have to reach out. We have to be visible. People can find us. Uh we have a large community online community of LGBTQ queer funders, queer funders and founders. People can take part in that. Uh 80% of our deal flow comes via the community. So that's uh that's very good. Um yeah, so we are connected and visible and active in different parts of Europe. Which sector is are there any sectors that the the BC prefers? >> No, it's sector agnostic. >> So the stage is important. So we invest in team, we invest in the people uh preede and seed stage. >> Is there something uh different about LGBTQ founders that do you think there is something different? >> Great question. This question I get asked every day. Yes. Uh we believe that LGBTQ [clears throat] founders uh are used to deal with adversity. They are used to uh develop senses antennas to scan the room. Is it safe? Is everybody feeling safe? Um that's very handy when you build a company, when you build teams, when you inract attract uh new customers to figure out okay this is um these people are really feeling safe. You have to build psychological safety to build high performing teams to build innovative teams right and that's what we believe that uh LGBTQ founders do best. which challenges uh does your VC have right now? >> So um attracting deal flow. We can always attract more deal flow. We have a lot of deal flow from the community. Um weekly we see a lot of deals but yeah we would love to see more from different countries. So uh when people can reach us, find our our website or via the venture scouts that would be um very helpful. Um and we are still fundraising until I think September this year. So almost closing the fund. Um yeah, so when there are LGBTQ uh investors or maybe straight investors understanding exactly what we are um investing in and understand the huge opportunity that we have um that's also interesting. >> Okay. Any lesson for the viewers or for entrepreneurs yes watching this? So a question I get asked very often is okay but LGBTQ is a small niche right but one in six founders identifies as LGBTQ one in six that's the same as the whole fintech industry so it's it's a fast growing market it's a very wealthy market also to uh sell your products to. So that's something that is very often misunderstood. It's a huge opportunity. It's not a social innovation thing. It's pure business performance that we invest in. >> And last question, any ask to the audience for a connection that you would like to have? >> Yes. Every LGBTQ founder who feels like, okay, I want to be part of this European community of uh fast growing startups, uh super nice investors. Yes. Come to us. >> Perfect. Thank you so much for the interview. >> Thank you.

Hello guys. In this video, you're going to watch four different interviews of some of the attendees at the Everybody Networks Here event this Monday. Everybody networks here. It's an organization that realizes different events across Europe where they focus on just one thing, networking and really deep connections. They also facilitate workshops in each of their events where in which the speaker is passionate about the topic. It can range from public communication to coaching to other different type of topics. In this video, I'm going to interview Oberg, also called the second level qu, a menopause advocate and coach for life after menopause for woman. Then I will interview Samantha Not. She uses her art to make people reconnect with their true essence with a eeky guy focused paintings. Afterwards, I will interview Loreno Hume, an image consultant which makes his clients to reflect in their image, their true identity and true self. And then I will interview Martine, the founder of Everybody Networks Here, so he can explain a bit about what the network is about and how he grew it to me such amount of countries by being just a solo founder. I hope you enjoy it. >> Hello. What's your name and what do you do? >> So, my name is Obj and I am in the empowering women in menopause. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, uh do you do workshops, coaching? Uh what's your business about? >> So, it's a workshop coaching of course a retreat where a lot of women come together and they can feel the energy. So you create kind of uh you know um a safe space so that they can open themsel and uh this is the best way actually to work with them so that they feel understood they feel seen and then they can open up to yeah optimize their situation where they are and create uh more wisdom more power within theirel and more freedom at the end. >> How did you started this? Which was the breaking point that you said okay I want to really do this? So the breaking point is actually really funny. It was uh this year in February and um this was the really breaking point. I was at an event uh woman health and uh there was uh you know the the room was filled with women you know all age you know and uh some mavericks some men who was there also and there was a panel discussion with three women and one man and there was some information cames out about women in uh in generally and also women in menopause and um yeah the only the the clinical side of women in menopause and not the other side you know the clinical side is you know the weight gain hormonal cows and also brain fog and um the other side is that women are powerful there there are a lot of wisdom in that age they know their boundaries and they are beautiful so I decided in that moment to um my mission and my vision to speak more about what women bring in the society women that age and uh less about um you know the the the other side what the society knows which is only clinical but we are human beings so and I'm myself in menopause so I can speak about it >> and um yeah that was the mission it started there actually like really started there yeah >> which is the main lesson that a woman when she has the menopause will you give to her >> uh menopause is not the end of a woman's power. It is the beginning actually because she don't have, you know, she don't get menstruation anymore. She raised children. She's now in the power in the in the in the heat of her of her being, you know, she she she knows what she know what she wants. So, she just have to remember it because it's there in her. So this is what I want women to feel when uh when yeah when they work with me or when they come out of a talk or a session with me that they feel like okay everything is possible. Age age is just a number and uh I don't listen to what the society tells me. I listen to myself because the power is in myself. The beauty is in myself. The wisdom is there. The leadership is there. So, and I am beautiful the way I am because I've been through all this. I've been young and now I can feel the new me. And just to be curious about it and not just listen only to this one side of society says, but the other side and to rediscover you as a woman as a queen. >> Do you think there is some misconception about in the society how it's perceived menopause? Yes, because the society uh has a picture of how women should be you know women should be young and thin and beautiful etc. you see also in in a fashion and um the perception of a woman in menopause is that okay she's been there done that you know she's she's obsolete no she's still there and she's uh like I said before a beautiful being a beautiful powerful woman because uh we talk about mother earth we talk about women and without us without women there's no life and a woman in her 50s or in menopause she come in this all in in this uh second level you know and the second level uh is the wisdom and the the leadership like I said so and I call this woman the second level queen the one who remember who she is she's been through adversities and she raised children she raised the society and now it's her turn to give this everything she've been through to give this wisdom to the generation who comes behind her generation of girls of women young women who when they see that those women are queens, you know, that that they use their power. So those women can give the light, can shine the light for the generations to come and to see, okay, when I'm going to be this age, I'm going to be a powerful woman because I know who I am and this is what I want to give the ladies. >> Amazing. >> Yes. >> What challenges do you have right now as an entrepreneur? Uh as an entrepreneur, the challenge is uh more visibility and uh to um yeah to to to reach out to more women and who um who see the the benefits in in uh in working with me and the benefit in um finding their freedom and um so I'm a lot in LinkedIn and I go a lot in in network uh events. And um well I just won myself the visibility award woman visibility award and yeah to to be more um to reach more people. So >> it takes time of course >> takes time but I'm sure you will >> yes because this is really important. This really important I mean I came to to Holland um in co uh I was almost 50 and um I left my boyfriend I left the country. I left my job because I bet on myself, you know, and I came here, I had no job, no signed contract, nothing but I knew I have my mindset and I can make it everywhere. And I wanted to show myself that this um yeah, the the menopause is is not uh is not the end, you know, you can still do something and you can do more because you have more. Just have to remember that you can do more. And after that I found a job and I won this award. And if I hadn't done that, if I didn't hadn't bet on myself, I wouldn't have be where I am today talking to you. >> Amazing. >> Yes. >> And which lesson would you like to give the to the audience any lesson for life? >> Look at yourself in the mirror and see the beauty, the power and talk to yourself. Say how amazing you are, how far you you became, how far you came um and who you became. And um tell yourself that you're amazing. And tell yourself that you're magnificent and smile at yourself because you're the only one who can make you happy. Nobody else. >> Okay. And any ask to the audience? Any ass to the network? Any connection that you would like to to reach? Yeah, people in uh in health, people who want to empower women. They have some uh someone who has a mother, someone who has uh I don't know uh to empower women in in in this phase of their lives and uh yeah just to reach out to me if they if they want and um if they feel the need and the necessity >> to the health sector any specific profile psychology, therapist or researcher? Yeah, psychology um um yeah HR you know so women who are in the in the phase of their lives where they are like okay I have the knowledge I have this but I'm functioning and I want to know who I am so it can be like I said HR it can be in the healthcare it can be uh a mother who raised the children and they're all out now and she doesn't know what what to do with herself and Um, yeah, women in in their 4Gs, women in power, and women who want to know more about themselves. >> Perfect. Thank you for the interview. That's nice to meet you. >> Of course. Thank you so much. >> Hello. >> Hello. >> What's your name and what do you do? >> My name is Sment and I'm an artist and I use uh my art to for transformation to make clear what is beneath the noise. Which kind of people come to you? >> Uh people who are on a crossroad who know that there is a shift but they are not doing something with the shift. There's a lot of noise around them that they cannot come to their own answers within them. So uh those people I come to meet it's like leaders, people executives, people who are very trying finding alignment in their life and are looking for their essence. >> How does your art transmit their the answers to their to their crossroads that yours mentioned? I use my 14 40 symbols and the moment I talk with people then I draw and I used the also eeky guy the reason of being the reason of why you living that's what I use to help people getting back to who they are >> how is ikiguai so explain us a bit more in detail about how ikiguai is related to to your art how do you use it >> well I use the four questions of uh what do you love and can you be paid for it? But it's more because I is more than all only the four questions. It's about your life. It's the way you live, the way uh you do things in life and take them. For instance, I was walking around and at the pavement then I saw only those tiles and then I see one seat came through with a little bit of grass and everything like you know and I I saw that I was looking at and I stopped with it. Also when the birds are flying or they're sitting and they're also talking about talking to you like you know it's the things in life that you stand still if you slow down and if you are you know using what's around you that can elevate you that can calm you that you see life because we are in a rush I don't know what kind of rush but we are in a rush going to there or we are busy with finance or of course with children of parents but this is about you recognizing who you are in the world and who you can be and if you are living your purpose so that's what I do that I can show you a step inside to who you are and then when I create an artwork the artwork you can put it somewhere in your house or in your office and on sudden days you'll see it will follow you or it will talk to you because I explain the artwork and if you are thinking about things or you have decisions to make or not even then you can see and look at your artwork and you see like hey why is it showing me this what did Sam explain to me or you got a symbol card and you can oh that's what it's meaning so it's talking to you it's a process about you who you are in your essence >> your red thread >> and I I also assume that during your sessions the your clients are also in the same uh place right and they see yourself like painting and >> well I'm drawing I I do have a video session that you can sit uh we have a teams >> and then I'm going to draw make you pick cards or no cards and then you talk sometimes people talk and then they stop because they getting their rest they are slowing down and I'm drawing because sometimes it's mesmerizing people see that I draw something and then I'm going to explain to you what I draw >> to let you get it. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> Amazing. >> And which um which are the most impressive transformations you've seen through your art? uh people crying, people recognizing uh also the people who are in awe. You know the moment you are drawing for somebody, it's very personal. It's also unique. I got a lot of paintings and I have a lot of drawings and a lot of eeky guy artworks I made for people and sometimes they reflected to me again like Sam what you made here this was about my grandma this was about this piece so I get the stories back and this is the thing what's doing the most for me is when people bring the stories back to me about their artwork >> the end you you get also something from them right with all your art >> I get I I give them energy but I get energy a lot of energy beautiful energy >> nice which challenges do you think you have right now if there are some >> uh challenging well a lot of people want to know like but okay Sam how does it work um so I I have my cycle it's like first you have to pause then I listen but you're also going to listen and I discover and you also going to discover. So it's a two-way and after the discover we align. you align with who you are and not what I'm telling but it's like you are going to recognize things and then I create and in the creation you see things from yourselves and it's an impact because at the end I believe that all the people who are aligned will make a better place in the world because when you have a lot of noise you struggle you fight but if you are aligned you know what to do. You don't struggle that much. You will find ways. >> Any lesson that you would like to give to the audience? >> A lesson. >> A lesson in your entrepreneurial journey for example or a life lesson. >> Be you. Be authentic. Live your life and be uh be enough. You are enough. >> Okay. Any ask for a contact that you would like to have from the all the network and viewers that are watching this contact. Um I love to collaborate with more people to elevate themselves their projects uh combining with who I am with my art. So with the eeky guy art make some collaborations work like wow. >> Perfect. Sounds good. Well, thank you so much for the interview. Really enjoy. >> Thank you for your time. >> Thank you so much. >> Okay. >> All right. You can move it. >> Okay. So, I'm going to pick one card and and this uh will tell me what it right. >> I'm going to tell you what it wants to show you at the moment. >> Okay. This this one. >> All right. Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. Show it. You can turn it around. >> Oh, I love those cards. I'm going to tell you what's on the back of the card. Is >> a bird. You know what the bird says? It says freedom. >> Okay. >> So, if I'm looking at the card, you can hold the card. So, what you see is this is freedom. You have your inner circle. This is you in the middle and your friends and family are there at the background. You do your do you and then you see here is a stairs and also a gate. So for you the next level because you are in the growth. You're beautiful from the inside and the outside and you are growing. Sometimes it's hard on the way that's why you have that black uh petal but when you are growing you keep on shining who you are. You are beautiful from the inside and the outside. And if you start growing, even if it gets hard, just keep being you. And then the freedom is all around you if you are following your authentic path. >> Okay. Yeah, that's something that I'm starting to know. So that's good. It makes sense. >> Amazing. >> All right. >> Great. That's Hello. Hello. What's your name? What do you do? >> My name is Lorenzo Hommet and my company called Image by Colors and Image by Colors is a company for coaching for also for trainings about image, color, styling and performance. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And what I'm doing I helping CEOs, I helping entrepreneurs with their first impression because uh the first impression is most of the time a stable impression. So I help them to to to be that that is for you very important that it is a good good impression. >> Which kind of clients do you get? Do you receive? um a lot of CEOs but also leaders leaders um that they know okay what is my ambition what is my vision and all the things and how to um perform myself that's kind of clients I have women female everything which are the most impressive transformations you had I can imagine a lot of leaders didn't look thought about their appearance when they were grinding uh right and Then suddenly they have to pitch. >> Yeah. Yes. But but also you you know when you are in in a company and you have um um 30 years or most of the time a lot of years you do the same thing every day every night and you don't have people around you that you can mirror you know in in a company and then they um after that they look after viewers okay is this is this what I have to do till my dad you know and uh then it is so important that you have people around you have intervision or other things because if you in your own bubble, then is that your truth? And if you people have your people surround you and to uh hold yourself accountable for things and all the and all the things what you're doing then uh you can grow and that is also my um opinion because um uh five years ago I started also with my personal development and I see a lot of things you know most of the time men that they don't want to talk about their feelings and um I was there also this I know and And if you can go there with start with your feelings. Um sometimes I was crying also you know because and you know a man cannot also you have also a lot of things where you have to uh go through and uh that helped me to to be the man who I am now and that I also use in my coaching. which are the main things that entrepreneurs do not take into account when they dresses themsel themselves. Yes, most of the time if they um um you know it starts from the inside that that's that's the first it start from the inside and um uh it's so important that you aware when when you stay on stage or if you uh talk to to people that you know okay what kind of clothes you wear but also um I say also um uh walk you talk you know there also your clothes is important but also who's your your tone of voice is important all these thing that I'm learn people that you be aware about it >> so you also help with communication also their personal development it's like a for complete >> your non your unfortable communication is not only your clothes but is also how you walk how you how you talk how you treat people how you give people a hand that is image you know is not only in the clothes but image is also that people found themselves uh comfortable you know and what what are you doing that people came to you go to a coach and and um then you have a lot of coaches you know and uh then uh for me important what are you doing that's um I make a decision to say okay I want to that you coach me then maybe you do a lot of things that uh you be authentic that I go by Do >> you a little bit know what I mean? >> So you you want them to show their image to show their true true themselves, their authenticity. Yes. >> And that's what they will make them. >> Yeah. They have to cut it. >> I will cut it. No worries. >> No, but it is very important that you you still stay authentic. In my profession there are a lot of female but are maybe I one of uh I'm the only one uh men in this uh at that use image color style image performance and that is one of my unique selling points and I'm also a musician so also I know also on stage how you perform yourself and that is an totally different uh with clothes and everything um than when you are on stage. age or when you uh leading a board or anything, >> how did you start it? >> Um well, I was modeling in my 20ies. That was what you asked. I was modeling in my 20ies and um I um go to Italy, in Spain, in in London and everything. And then one of my friends who I was modeling in those days, he told me, "You have to do something about image consulting." So, okay, what is that image consulting? Because in the Netherlands um if you you dress all the things that why you you know but when you go to Spain or in Italy you know the man female they dress nice every day is a party you know and he's a image consultant said okay maybe is is it something for me so uh there was um um men and women they were they had all the banking in in uh the Netherlands they were honorable was the first suppliers uh from that uh that company. And so um on the job they learn me this uh this job two years every day. I see a lot of banking people came and then um then I was in those days I was a junior um image consultant and they help me say okay what you see see the eyes and you you learn also to be to um uh to also look further than also the clothes and everything you know also okay what is the profession what are what are they doing um what kind of car they do so concept conceptual um also thinking you know and then uh also to write down a a clothing protocol that uh when something in your company when people coming in your company that you can give them a book this is this is our protocol and so you have to use this and so that's then take it or leave it you know so um and I was also project manager in those days so they um give me also the opportunity to also to make some um um protocols with the boards of the companies and so I start from 2009 and um so till now. >> Nice. Amazing. >> Yeah. >> And what challenges do you have right now? >> Um you know uh we had a very hard times a few years ago the co time. So you see a lot of entrepreneurs they stopped but also a lot of entrepreneurs they nowadays they also uh their self-esteemed and and a lot of things they struggle with that so uh in my coaching for me is also um u I help them with with uh I have some some new things some some test personal power test what I'm doing with a client and um then we going to look what's are the the things where we can start and from that from then we build it up further to help them with their performance their clothes their style and that they can can uh yeah do their work further >> and uh that is one of the things what what I'm uh I'm still looking for uh but I'm looking also for um to go to um uh international uh to will develop my brand. That's one of the things entrepreneurs that are starting to to care about their image right now. That's what I understood. No, but also my my own company, my company is image by color and I'm I'm living in Amsterdam, but I'm based in Hilverson, but uh I do master classes and everything through the the whole Netherlands and all the things and also online and but I want to to go uh international and I I like uh to to travel. So I like to travel to to Madrid >> to Yes. It's your country. >> My city. >> Yeah. Yeah. your city Madrid um but also Italy, Rome, um Milan also and London and um this is what I'm doing this for everyone you know because uh if you have if you talk about image image is what uh uh you and and I everyone needed okay and so also image is um you have image and identity identity is um um how do they call it in English? Um your your self uh your self-image is identity and image is how people see you >> how people see you and for me it's important that identity and image that it's is a synergy. >> Okay. Any lesson for the viewers that are watching this? Um be authentic and um um self-development is very important. If you want to to stay, you have to develop yourself uh every day. >> Every day. >> Every day. >> Okay. And any ask to the audience any connection that you would like to have from the network that is watching this? Um yes, if you want to follow me, I have my my my website is image by colors and uh monthly I have also um a masterclass >> and then also it is a little bit also with network marketing because you you see also a lot of other entrepreneurs or sometimes people who struggling also with uh things and and you have to know that you are not the only one because there are a lot of other people they struggle also with a lot of things. So, um, follow me and and, uh, um, >> to connect with more people that you can help. >> Yes. >> Sure. >> Well, thank you so much for the interview. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Hello. Hello. Oh, hello. Oh, >> Martine. >> What's What's your name? >> My name is Mortang. >> And what do you do? >> I'm the founder of Everybody Networks Here. >> Explain me what what does Everybody Next Force do? >> What Everybody Networks here does. uh we create um workshops and uh international networking events for um experts and like-minded professionals. >> Okay. How did the the project started? The company started >> how it started? Um it started yeah pretty yeah I would say almost naturally but it's um I was actually looking for my own uh job. I lost my job and um to be really honest I couldn't be bothered to sending out um called applications and CVs and uh my idea was to fight my job through a networking event and then a networking event that I would organize myself because then I can set the the team I can set and I can learn something new also while doing it. Never organized an event and um yeah, so that's how it started. Um and um and I keep continue doing it and I got more opportunities u coming my way along the way in different cities, different countries and um so this is now um yeah I'm not sure I would say uh what uh what I'm doing uh everybody networks here. Yeah. Which is the the biggest factor you you think that has brought you to make these events for hundreds if not thousands of people along the way? What made me do it? >> Cons no the biggest driver consistency virality which is the the thing that you think it's >> yeah it's about uh keep on showing up >> me showing up all the time doing it again and again and again continuation repeat learning from um previous events try to improve them um yeah this bit I'm trying to Yeah. >> And has social which which social media are you? Instagram, LinkedIn or >> Yeah. So mainly LinkedIn um and uh also Instagram but to be really honest um I actually copy my LinkedIn post directly to my Instagram post to Instagram. So it's the exact same content. And I know marketing gurus out there maybe think this is not the way to do it but um I just don't have the time to u to do it otherwise. >> Which kind of workshops uh and guests we can expect in one of your business? all kinds of uh for me it's very important that the that the host uh the workshop host is very passionate about the subject that this person is talking about that's really important for me because that will uh that enthusiasm people will see this and feel this and then you normally or what I experience is then you will get like a nice workshop and Um uh it doesn't matter what the subject is, what it is about. >> How did you get this? We are in Zoku Amsterdam. How did you get this spaces? How did you approach to such a company and ask them about doing an event? >> Yeah. So Zoku is not only in Amsterdam, they're also in Paris, in Vienna and Copenhagen. So I started doing these events with Zoku in Copenhagen. And it was uh me approaching them and asking them, hey, you have this space here. can I can I do this event here? So, it's very much about me approaching them. Uh this is now one and a half year ago. Uh more to two years ago, I think. Yeah. >> And what's next for everybody next year? More cities, different formats. What do you expect in the coming months or years? >> Yeah. So, um the last one and a half years. So one and a half year ago I made the decision to go all in with everybody network that works here and my plan was to create as many events as possible in different cities, different countries. I've done this now and I have a lot of learnings from this uh and I've the community becomes bigger also. Um, and now after the summer, um, I'm going to think about the next step. And the next step, not know, I'm not exactly quite sure how this could be, but it has to do a lot with it has to do because at the moment I'm doing everything by myself. Um, I do have support from some people who are helping me in the different cities, but uh, also not every city, but um, I have support from people, but I have to ask maybe for more support. So for example uh I've now recently only recently starting with uh uh I have an accountant or somebody is looking into the financial part of this uh what I'm doing and uh I've only recently started this so I'm going to um yeah outsource more things so I can create more events and I can make this uh community even bigger. >> I see. What challenges do you have right now? Yeah, that I'm a one one man show and uh I'm my own bottleneck. Uh this is how you say it. I'm um um because I want to make this bigger. I think that um uh networking and inerson networking becomes or is already so important and will become more important uh in the future coming years. Um and um yeah, I just want to make this bigger and see how far how far I can go with this. >> Is there any region or city that you think they are more social and they network more? Do you have more attendees? >> Um yeah. Yes. Uh so uh in um so when I do the events in Switzerland I have uh the intendency is quite high uh but if I do it in smaller cities maybe in the Netherlands then it's not so high but it doesn't matter so much the energy most times the same or I try to make it the same at least and um it doesn't matter if I'm with five people or if I'm with 50 people it's all about the opportunities that comes out of these events and it doesn't matter so much like with how many people you are. Um so that um >> any lesson that you would like to give to the viewers or the from your entrepreneurial journey >> listen to your gut feeling >> and uh we also just had a workshop today but but it is very true and trust trust trust the process these kind of things I keep telling myself I'm also not sure all the time with the things that I'm doing I'm also learning by doing, right? I haven't studied for this. I have Okay, I've studied marketing and law, but I've never studied event marketing. Um, I just started somewhere and I showed up. And when you show up and follow your uh your gut, amazing thing can happen. >> Wow, that's really nice for myself. >> Amazing. >> But but I think it's really true. I think it's really really true. >> Amazing. any contact that you would like to get from uh the post from the network. >> Sorry. >> Any contacts that you would like to get from the post or from the network? From the video, from the audience >> from the audience. Um >> um any specific one that you will say, okay, this person would be really interesting to be in my event. Everybody is welcome first of all at my event. So there doesn't I don't have one particular person. Uh everybody should feel welcome at my events. Um, but I'm always looking for awesome workshop hosts. I'm also uh looking for partners who would like to partner with me on doing events together with me. Sponsors back to partners is like a partner can already be if you have like a um a space uh an event space or maybe somewhere in your office you have space where I can host my events, right? So that I can actually increase my cost and put the ticket price also down so that more people can actually network. Uh I'm also very uh we're also looking uh to to speak with these uh people these partners. >> Perfect. Well, thank you so much for the interview. >> Yeah, thank you so much for having me and uh yeah, thank you. >> Have a seat. Thank you. Thank you.

Hello guys, in this video we come with the presence of Nina from Monokco Media. She's an entrepreneur and a marketing expert that she's going to help us in three cases, three practical cases. One, an academy of Vacata where they are starting and they want to find how to compete. Then a CRM for mering acquisitions that are building which is a really close sector. So let's see what she tells us. And then my own project connector, my influencer role in it, how the content funnels the the network and see how she can support in this journey. So uh Nina, can you tell us more about yourself and what do you do? >> Thanks. Yeah, thanks for inviting me. I'm glad to be here. uh in my role as a founder and marketing expert. Um I've started Monokcomdia because um yeah so I'm from uh the marketing field but I also have a research backbone which is my positioning. It's evidence-based. Um and that's also what I do in my work. Um I always let it be uh fully guided by research and by evidence. >> Okay. And what kind of services do you offer as well? So usually what I do with my clients is we take a step back uh and we look at the whole system. So marketing in itself is a system and if you want to reach your business goals with marketing you need to design it for success that requires you to zoom out and to look at the bigger picture. And what I mean by that is if you already have clients for example, you are looking at your um most successful projects, the ones that brought in the biggest revenue, the ones that you um really loved doing and you look what they have in common. So you will see uh commonalities for example um around a certain buyer persona. Um you will see commonalities around maybe business size that you were um helping uh to solve their problem. And then what you really want to focus on in that step is you want to look at the certain uh words wording that your clients are using. Um by that you can carve out the buyer persona and you use your buyer persona to restructure upstream your positioning, your value proposition and your messaging systems. >> Okay. So would you say that it's a bad idea to start thinking about paying ads because you have an vague hypothesis about your ICP for example okay my CP is here in LinkedIn or in Google you should always find a a better strategy and then pay us right >> yeah I really recommend that highly because if you just go in uh with a vague assumption that is your best way to burn a budget Um, if you want to do paid ads well, then the strategy needs to be there because you want to have um a very clear value proposition that uses your client's wording that you can use for structuring your cold traffic offer. And once you have that as clear as daylight, then you can send paid traffic onto your onto your offering. Paid traffic in itself is just the fuel. It can uh it can really uh let the fire shine brighter but for it to burn properly you have to put the system in place. >> Okay, sounds good. So with this introduction let's dive deep into the cases. So first we have a Latin flow academy. This is a vaca academy that started recently some months ago. The founders have extensive expertise and they already have a network and they see that the they are competing with whales that are already been in place for a lot of years. So they are wondering what to do differently uh to to get more clients. According to the the founders the the business is actually on the beginners. So on getting newcomers that will advance some classes going to intermediate advance and at some point uh this kind of uh users or clients they leave the the school because they feel that they already good enough to dance. Uh one of the things that they are doing is they are implementing some other styles or similar styles to veta to differentiate themselves. But how would you think that they can be can be helped in this case? >> So what you really want to do in this case is you need to zoom out again and look at the bigger picture and look at the whole environment to see how can you reach your goal of having a community of having people having beginners that want to do um their whole curriculum with your school. So um what you really want to look at is uh your market, your target audience and the people that are already coming to your school. >> Um what do they for example say about your school? So if you're looking at the market, there's a few um factors that come into play. Um because the market is already kind of saturated, right? There's a lot of dance schools that have um a similar offering and if you want to compete uh with paid ads in that environment, you will always compete on price. So that's an issue that you want to try and avoid. Um if you're looking at the audience, um they're they are hanging out in certain channels, right? In certain communities, you'll probably want to be on the socials, uh Instagram, Tik Tok, um and meet them there. And then if you look at the people that are already coming to your dance school, what are they coming to your dance school for? So you've already mentioned that they have specific dance styles and that is a big advantage because potentially there are dance styles that other dance schools in Amsterdam are not offering yet and that students will come to your school for specifically. So that is something that you want to communicate with the right group. But that said, since this is a new um dance school entering a market that's already quite saturated, the dance school will have to be more creative because potentially it's a smaller budget that can be used potentially um it's not that easy to compete with a budget on paid channels uh on prices. So what you really want to focus on is what other added value can we give to our students and to our community. So potentially look at events. Can we have a recurring um social dance event that people will want to attend that people will may maybe even make their own uh UGC about? Post some videos on Instagram, on Tik Tok and by that make use of um of other channels other than paid uh advertising as well. >> Okay, perfect. Thank you for the for the help for the explanation. Then let's move on to the CRM that I built. The context of this essentially it's a CRM that I started building as a pilot for a mer acquisition advisory firm in Spain and it has let's say AI tooling. It can centralize all their operations. So they really like it. The problem that I found here is that I try to reach through LinkedIn in the Netherlands and Spain and I don't get enough feedback either of people that would like just to give me feedback on the software or even buy the product, right? So, it's really a close market because they build relationships locally, relations locally and they connect buyers and sellers. Therefore, as a in the Netherlands, for example, approaching as an international is is tricky as well in this context. And I think I'm now a bit demotivated in that aspect with this CRM. Although with my pilot clients and a new potential customer might be really relevant. Therefore, what I did on the landing page was make it more generic since I can use the tooling currently for also other types of clients like solopreneurs. And how would you say that I can approach this case from a marketing perspective in this kind of close market? Mhm. Um, so there's a bigger issue that I see at the moment because from the M&A that seem to be quite of a closed community, you sort of went more broad into more uh different um use cases, more different industries. That isn't a problem per se, but the more you can niche down, the better your target audience will be able to find you. So that's one. Um, if you want to break into a very tight network, um, you will need people to open doors for you. So, um, one thing I can really recommend to you is, uh, to look at the, um, people that you already have on your platform, see if they can potentially, um, open doors for you in the M&A network. Um if you don't have that possibility then you will have to go and network potentially at events potentially wherever you find uh people in M&A just to see um and get feedback also about your product and about um if it is really solving the problem that you set out to solve for them. So you will need a lot of feedback from your desired market. Um, so another thing that you see a lot in uh SAS is a partnership program because um you will want to have people that can introduce your CRM to their network. So you want to find people that are either working in M&A or that are servicing the M&A um market community. So, if you have people that work in or adjacent to that market, find find the ones that will become a partner for you. Find uh the ones that will potentially get to use your CRM either for free or for a certain percentage of the of the um clients that they bring in for your platform. This is a very common uh approach in the SAS world and uh that is something that has been working very successfully for a really long time. Even Monoku media is in partnership programs. >> Okay, perfect. Well, sounds amazing. I think I will apply it. And last but not least, my personal project, the connector, which my current project, which basically consists on creating a network through content like this and through interviews in events, organization, tagging and posting the people in the linkering post that funnels the YouTube channel, which is where their content is originally located, and also a form where people can put their desires of connection. For example, I offer my marketing services and I want to connect with partners or with clients or with X company, right? The idea with this then is to match the people myself. Uh I match them through in this database and then I post the results of the matching in in my socials again. And in this way there is a circle of traffic and I can create a network that is useful since uh I starting building dust since I when I went to events or communities I saw that the matchmaking procedure wasn't done really properly. So the whole objective of this concept is to match people effectively and with purpose which is a thing that I haven't seen yet. So the what do you think >> and what type of matchmaking are you doing with the platform like who are you matching to whom? So I'm matching everybody that has wants to connect with other person of their interest or that has a specific need or even matches that are not seen but because I know that person that person could have some synergies with other other person then I can also match them together. The idea is first uh we have a simple form where you put your socials, your details, what you offer and what you're looking for and then you can enrich it with also data from your social lifestyle data if you are an investor of what you're looking for for a buyer of companies if you are a company also your details what you're looking for partners clients and and yeah that's and also even if you are a job seeker talent or recruiter in this way. That's that's what I'm doing. >> And we spoke about niching down before, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's true. It's true. >> Again, it's um it is a beautiful pro project because it's always nice to get people in touch and to help them actually drive moments of um of meeting each other in real life. I believe marketing is going to move much more towards that over the next couple of years, but it's still important to find your niche within that. Right? So, currently you're working with a lot of founders. That's already pretty much a niche and that's nice and it's um a good way to bring them all together. So, right now you have um a lot of different people that you're speaking to, but if you focus on one group, it will be easier to reach them through your LinkedIn. it will be easier to reach them through your YouTube and they will know how to find you as well. So that is one thing that I can uh give you um as an advice and then also look at how do you pull the bigger um picture together like now you have the LinkedIn, you have the YouTube, you have the database and the form um but what is the value delivered? So what do people get out of it? I I can see value in matchmaking for sure, but what happens after I fill in the form? What is my expectation? Am I waiting for a week? Am I getting a match next month? Am I getting a match next year? I don't know that. And I don't have insight in that. So, um it would be really nice to do something with the audience that you're creating. Even if just a way to be in touch with them monthly through for example a network event or maybe you have um a monthly update of what businesses are in the community, what interesting um opportunities came out of that. Were there people that met each other? Um how did the meeting go? So keep people updated about that and also try to find what value can you create from them, right? because you are you have access to all of these people. You can speak to them and get um information from them. What helps them? What kind of value do they want to get from the community? What is their expectation? And from that you get an idea of where you're building towards. You get an idea of the direction that you're going to go in. >> Okay. Well, thanks. I will apply the the for sure. Definitely. Uh thank you so much for coming here. What some last questions more general I think uh do you think is there a point uh where you have to pay ads and when or is that feasible to know? >> Yes, I think there's definitely a point um and it's also in my opinion very easy to spot but I'm a practitioner of course. Um you need your strategy to be to be super tight. You want your positioning to be um very clear, as clear as day. And you want your cult traffic offer to be extremely specific and in your desired customer's language. Once you have that, that's the perfect moment to go and test out which channel is the one that's working best for you. Um because even if you know your target audience very well, it is still important to within that audience, wherever they hang out, test which channel works the best to get your customers to convert. And then one other factor that is really important is is it already working organically? Do you already have people finding you organically through your website, through your socials, through LinkedIn? Do they approach you organically? Then that is the moment where you know ads will work. >> Okay. And any conversion metric that is uh is there a best conversion metric or does it vary depending on the business? >> Leads. Leads if you ask me, but that's because uh I'm very much uh from a lead genen background. It depends on the business that you're in. So I will focus on leads many times because that's what the businesses want. But for example, if you want to drive awareness, if you're running a branded campaign, then the um the ideal goal for your campaigns can be either awareness or engagement. But usually um businesses focus very much on leads and they want to um track the revenue that they get per lead. So uh that is that is the conversion we most apply and then you have a lot of different conversions if you're looking at the e-commerce space. So then you might have an add to cardart abandoned cart purchase. So uh it really depends on the field that you're in. >> Well but that was it. Thank you so much for the the whole master class and I hope everybody has enjoyed the this video and see you next time. Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. Follow us on LinkedIn.

Hello guys. In this video, you're going to see how I interviewed three founders that attended the TechMakers event. Techmakers is a community of more than 7,000 builders, founders, and investors that are focused on the tech scene in Amsterdam. It enables people to come together, network, and growth. They have startup pitches, hackathons, conferences, and also deep dives, really technical. And this 10th of June they will be doing the startup world cup 26 2026 Benelux region. It's a pitch competition where the winner can compete for a 1 million investment prize in San Francisco against other startups. So the winner of Venus to San Francisco. So I think I will also be recording that. Enjoy the video. >> Hello Julio. What's your name? What do you do? I'm Nico, co-founder of Perfectus. And um we're developing a no code drag and drop builder so people can create their trading strategies visually and reliably. It's like uh WordPress but not for websites but to create your trading strategies. >> Okay. Why did you started this uh this company? >> I started this around 10 years ago when I was uh trading with real money. Um got beat hard by the market after a week of trading, chasing losses, revenge trading, losing money. Um and then when I realized that this was like the marking point for me uh my obsession with like stripping away the noise in trading because there's a lot of distraction and I got distracted a lot particularly when I was like 19 and yeah lost a lot of money first week of trading >> and well I'm a ex econometrician so um I was wondering are you also going to implement the statistical models or risk assessment models in your platform or is mostly done for building a strate strategies. How does your platform help to assess risk? >> We do this to an extent because it's it's very important. We will probably not do it as fancy as in your studies, but we try to follow best practices because in the end you are wearing different kind of hats. You're tra you're wearing the head of a trader of an analyst and of a market observer. Um so the bit of like trading is taken care by perfect because you can create your algorithmic trading system and now you need to know is it good or not and there comes the analysis uh into place which you can also do in profctor. So you create a strategy and then you can run it in platform with our in-house back testing engine and you get a back test report and then also your statistical metrics like is it profitable, how profitable is it, how big is the draw down, um is the strategy good enough for certain prop firms. So you get quite a good feeling already. Um and we simply follow yeah best practices. So we don't go as deep as like a like a quantitative report but good enough for amateur and newbie traders which are our focus groups to get a feel is it worthwhile now to forward test on demo money and then let's say after three or six weeks now you get a feeling cool it's still profitable on on this live account but demo money now it's worthwhile to actually try it on real money. Okay. What's the vision for Perfectos? >> Becoming a piece of infrastructure. This is the this is the goal. Being uh a piece of ethical infrastructure in trading because there are yeah many players with kind of like mismatching incentives such as brokers that A and B which is not per se bad but it's definitely a conflict of interest. The same with prop firms. As soon as you are profitable as a trader, they there's a tendency that they terminate the the accounts of those traders. So being a player, a stakeholder in this environment with like a strong purpose of really adding value for traders, this is our our purpose, our vision. >> And what's the current progress so far? Do you have users? Have you tested uh how your platform helps them regarding other alternatives? So we launched last year pretty much exactly one year ago 2025 in June. We have developed the core product the drag and drop builder for 18 months because in our industry there is no wiggle room for any mistakes which actually proved us right because we had early traction with a B2B player a Dutch investment fund using our software up to today. And um yeah this is pretty much where where we are at. Um we will launch very soon our back testing engine next week actually. We will add also a a speech to bot feature very soon. So making it even catering better to newbies and amateur traders so they don't need to um care too much for the details in the beginning and just get started as well. >> Uh what which is one of the challenges you are currently having >> since we are hyper niche not only that we in the trading industry but also algorithmic trading. So in a room you might find one person who is an algorithmic trader if even finding those people is quite a challenge. So this is also what we would uh get the capital for to find those people um increase our reach getting the market share in our niche to be the player for algorithmic trading. >> So one ask will be to find capital and investor. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> And any lesson from your entrepreneurship that you would like to share with other fellow entrepreneurs? If you can start with a co-founder, it's much easier than you alone. Uh I wouldn't be here without my two other co-founders, Yosa Max. Um they have completely different angles and it's a much richer discussion and as a entrepreneur I think it's very often of like what you don't do and what you do. >> Um so this really helps. Find a co-founder I think is a is a very good first start. >> It was nice to meet you. Thank you. Likewise. >> That's it. All righty. Hello. >> Hello. What's your name and what do you do? >> I am Carla Canino and I'm the founder of Kylie. We are the only dual platform for AI fairness, compliance, and revenue recovery through no PII and no integration. >> How how does that work? >> That's a great question. Think about us as first um sitting on top of the tech stack. We are an independent evaluator. Um we essentially white hat uh customer service interactions to see how systems how customer service systems in the financial sector behave towards vulnerable populations. So based on the anomalies or based on the friction points, we extrapolate that information and create uh say a cost um a cost um profile uh in order to provide a financial incentive for companies to improve their models and we also improve the data directly. So you disentangle discrimination from these statistical models that at the endang like create some discrimination in these financial models when assessing loans for immigrants or disabled. >> Right. >> That's that's what we're aiming to do but we're not quite there yet because we're not yet working with credit decisioning. But that's a very good point. I do love the disentangling uh point. I would say that we identify friction points. I wouldn't say discrimination itself because a lot of the gaps that we notice are more a sin of under representation than a sin of uh purposeful discrimination right a lot of the anomalies that we identify are actually accessibility related and there is unfortunately a wide uh unpreparedness or lack of preparedness towards uh you know things like um uh yeah visual accessibility for example and there's also a lot of looping or refusals or um simply the lack of context that uh results in things like hallucinations or again like the promise of escalation to someone that is able to respond to an accessibility query but then it doesn't. So all of those are friction points and simply I mean the majority of the times is a memory retrieval issue basically the rag is undertrained right uh the knowledge base is lacking this context and that's why we are now uh basically our slogan is context is everything >> okay why did you started this company >> um Kylie started as an idea in early 2024 and um it started here in the Netherlands We did our first pitch at Holland Fintech, which is where I met Fabian and the guys from Techmakers. We uh again just as an idea, we won that first pitch and a couple of months later we were also pitching for um for TechMakers. Uh that same fall we got selected for Tech Stars Miami and we went through the program. We graduated in December and since then we have actually both um yeah proven the the the thesis which is essentially that by identifying biases we were able to also quantify operational friction and operational costs to as an incentive right for for organizations to become fairer. Um and we created the methodology and the first study like last summer. We deployed it in uh deployed it we launched it in November. That was the first publication that we had actually quantifying and having empirical evidence of unfairness in platforms. And this February we just launched our like the first version of our platform. So it's been a year and a half or almost two years of yeah of development. >> The how and the why. Why are you doing this? Why are you building this company. I think oh this sounds really emotional but I think in in many ways this is what I'm meant to do but um personally like I have a disability as you've seen um I'm a woman I'm an immigrant and I've been in the room when we make decisions around you know like yeah like who do we flag in you know in credit or fraud decisioning um I'm in one of the decision makers to uh to you know develop um finan financial products and I can tell you that we make the wrong assumptions about people. we uh unfortunately inject so many biases unknowingly so and we have such complex tech stacks that in the in an era where there's an 80% AI adoption by financial institutions it would be it's I can see the danger right like I can see the danger of not quantifying this the danger of not tracking not only how it affects uh people but how these models are actually drifting and kind of you know um reinforcing this bias us more and more the you know throughout the years. So I just think it's something that needs to exist and their legislation is also helping me out with that or helping us out with that right. It's quite literally kind of uh gearing more towards the the methodology that we're using. Um but yeah, like you know, a myriad of experiences that I've had have told me that um we we have an opportunity right now with the adoption of AI to change things. And I've found a way to both incentivize financially and create full visibility into doing exactly that, right? to be able to um do well and do good financially speaking and I mean make make fairness profitable for people quite literally or for corporations. >> Do you think the financial sector is adopting AI at the same rate or speed than other sectors? >> Quite frankly, I haven't done a comparison. And I know the financial sector has um yeah is adopting it at an 80% rate uh depending on the use cases or some internally some uh customerf facing twothirds of financial institutions already have implemented AI for customerf facing interactions and it's only going to expand right like into like we're seeing agentic AI and that's going to you know slowly creep into a lot of the um yeah uh experiences we know that KYC is partly fueled already with AI Biometric authentication is partly fueled with AI nowadays. So in 3 years time a lot of these things are going to be the norm and so you know I think that obviously access to to financial services is a human right. Everybody needs to to participate in the economy, right? And if this is affecting such a broad segment of the population or many segments of the population which in aggregate are you know you saw the presentation over 60% of current and future customers then who are we building you know like what what are these models going to how are these models going to affect the the financial access for everyone in two three years time >> AI is not explanatory. >> Pardon? is AI is not self-explanatory, right? It's like a black box. >> Exactly. Exactly. And >> so we need systems. >> Yeah. It's a it's a it's a black box. And it's a black box that already um carries its own biases, its own uh you know um uh data weights, but it also it's complex because of the tech stacks of the companies deploying it, right? Because we're not talking about just analyzing, I don't know, Chachi PT or analyzing Gemini. Every single one of those corporations or the, you know, major corporations out there have a very complex tech stack and they, a lot of them even have AI governance platforms already embedded, but they can only control what they see and what they have, right? Uh there it's it's virtually impossible for them to truly be able to see how their models are performing towards these specific groups in production. And so that's why we're coming. In fact, they have zero visibility right now. >> Okay. Which uh is one of the challenges the most important challenge that you're facing right now with your company? >> That's a tricky question. >> So, let me think about this one. I think a couple of years ago, people kind of ran away from the concept of biases. They either swore that there were no biases and you know like their their model didn't carry any bias uh or they said they they they would do eventually something and I think the biggest challenge that we had recently was around regulation like there was there was a lot of things up in the air in regards to the AI act and in regards to enforcability and also the complexity around regulation in the US. Um, but we found a way to operationalize ISO 24027, which essentially gives us not only the highest standard, but by virtue of something like I don't know if you're familiar with the Brussels effect, but by virtue of um the Brussels effect is essentially European influencing policy policy elsewhere because Europeans are much faster uh you know and thorough at establishing yeah regulatory benchmarks um and and frameworks, I'm sorry. uh and so that gets adopted elsewhere and so for for us the clarity that just happened around the AI act the the fact that they expanded some of the responsibilities around bias analysis and transparency um they also validated that you know the the use of synthetic data was you know preferable and in some cases there's exceptions so it actually gives us um yeah a lot of validation in terms of our methodology but it I think the the biggest challenge that a company that kindly has is perception, right? Like people like and it's changing a lot, but people like running away from the conversation around biases and now they really like now they're embracing it. So it's it's turning the wave. >> It's a hard question. >> I know. >> And what else? Uh one lesson that you would like to to give to other entrepreneurs or founders that are listening to this. Oo, so many. Um, I'm a solo founder for a reason. It's really hard to have a company and it's really hard to have a company in something like this where you're trying to both make an impact and and you know have a have a fully like full-fledged um uh scale. I would say one of the toughest pieces of advice I was given was it's going to be much harder than you think and it's going to take way longer than you think. And that was true. But the other one, the other most valuable piece of advice that I was given was you only fail if you quit. And sometimes some people should quit. But if you're good at product, if you're a good technologist, if you're a good entrepreneur, you receive feedback, you update your vision, your product, your deck, your business model, whatever it is, you adjust, you test, and you keep on going. >> So the only way that you fail is if you quit. Okay. >> I don't know. I mean, honestly, uh that is what's what's pushed me forward for years on this. >> Perfect. And one last thing, this should have been the last question. My bad. Uh but this is the last question. >> Any ask that you have for uh the community, my community, my network and tech makers or >> the viewers that are going to see this? Any ask? >> Um well, >> what are you looking for? We're always looking for we're always looking for pilots to validate the efficacy of our remediation models or remediation data that is so we've already proven our methodology right like we've already created the platform itself and now what we need to demonstrate or quantify is how effective and what is the delta between say you know one type of institution and another so that those are the pilots that we're seeking to do >> um financial institutions overall so uh insurance so the the the test uh set that we that we launched with was with insurance companies, with fintex and with banks. So So yeah um and we are opening our next trench uh next week actually right around money 2020. So um we are looking for investors that have a specific thesis around responsible AI or AI infrastructure. We consider ourselves an AI infrastructure company, not an AI governance uh company. And we need people or we need investors that can essentially open the path for us to become the global standard in AI fairness. That's what we're aiming for. >> Perfect. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much for the interview. Thank you. >> Thank you so so much. I super appreciate you. Thank you. >> That's it. >> Okay. >> Hello. Ano? What's your name? What do you do? >> Hi, my name is Nitin. >> Nin >> and I work uh as a data analytics uh engineer uh in Ministry of Defense. Uh I work for Dutch Navy at the moment. Okay. >> So, I give my services uh to uh to the Dutch Navy. >> Uh are you entrepreneur as well or? >> Yes, I'm an entrepreneur. I have a partner and uh we have also a service model in India to do a support model. Uh so that's what we do at the moment. So my clients are like uh were actually Hineken uh BAM uh Grand Vision. So now uh also I work for a semiconductor company in Munich uh infinion and uh now uh we are quite occupied with uh ministry of defense because uh they want uh to cope up with uh all these years which they have neglected on investments on data tech uh so we are helping them to uh to get their governance model of the data and uh putting solutions uh for them. Which kind of solutions does your company offer? Only data science software. >> We have like solution like artificial intelligence, uh data science, uh data uh data engineering, u uh data governance, master data, uh and also developers who are developing pipelines uh from finance uh from supply chain uh to uh to make a central data warehouse uh where the data is managed and stored in a nice way. It's very challenging because the uh defense is such a complex organization and everything has a procedure. So it's not easy. So it's my first time working with a uh defense company like a Dutch defense and uh it's very challenging to be honest. It's not as fast as uh like a private company but uh it's a very good experience on how to do stakeholder management. >> You mentioned you have outsourced labor in India. Yeah. what which are the benefits of uh outsourcing in India compared to doing it >> so basically for Dutch defense it's not possible because you need a lot of clearances and you know rules and regulations and you need Dutch speaking people so that's why most of the uh support is in Netherlands but for other clients we have a a framework where we support uh clients who need 24/7 services on like on a sport model to support an application and we are like cheap for example we are cheap because uh in India we have cheap labor, good intelligent guys. Uh sometimes they need some guidance but uh technically they are very sound and we have already the solutions built up. Uh and it helps clients to not go from the scratch and rather than just use those solutions or use the framework. Uh for example, if a company has lot of backend systems and they have already implemented it and they need u support to just maintain it, you know. So then we have uh people who can do it on a very cheap uh models. >> When did you started or did you join this company? How did it start? >> Yeah, actually 8 years ago. So uh actually I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Uh only thing is when I moved to Netherlands, I started working with Accenture. So and you know you always not sure if you want to live in this country and you need to learn Dutch and are you capable enough to to deliver to the clients because you need to set up some standards uh and uh and then like suddenly an offer came which I thought uh would be very nice to just leave uh my uh you know and as far as I say like when you're young I'm not young but like I say to young people when they're young they should make mistakes they should uh lose also Because then you know the difficult times and you can grow up. But if you are late you get used to the security and comfortable life you know having a job the salaries coming in uh you stop taking risk in life. So taking risk is very important even you don't have to you know you have security but you also know to how to lose little bit and take some risk. So that's my uh tip to the young people. >> Amazing. So you started with a a co-founder this company. Uh yeah, I'm the co-founder because basically my most of my experience uh was earlier in media and then I switched to SAP with SAP solutions with SAP I worked with on uh implementations in with Shell for example and with Shell I learned a lot on uh how to make how to deal with ERP data, how to make a business warehouse, how to store the data, uh how to make it secure and how to make the statistics working for the company not only for the history but also for the forecasting like predictive analysis and predictive forecasting and budgeting for example >> what do you think about the AI wave and the sub ERP CRM that we these big companies that we're accustomed to what is is AI going to affect to these big companies are new players going to enter or anybody is going to have a personalized approach to to their CRM or ERPs or >> yeah the EA will Of course it's not going anywhere and the companies like ERP systems uh will be you know using more AI layer for example to get some information for example if you're using ERP system there are specific reports which you can you know get out like how much sales you have done in a month and what are the profits for example and then maybe the the the AI layer will help like for example to get like some out ofthe-box uh questions uh uh like what was the customer segment or other stuff. >> Do you think from a business standpoint new players are going to appear against SAP classic SAP or something? I think Zap is a very big company and they have al they're also trying to change it more on cloud solution and I think they basically there will be players coming in and out but uh uh this has always been like industry is never for like one person like one company stays for like thousand years they keep on coming and changing but SAP and like Microsoft they are big companies uh and they are like doing all the revolutions in the technology field uh but I think the most important thing is to how to keep the data uh for a long time like data governance when you have data for 20 years it it needs storage for example and the data has to be good and AI will only work if the data is correct because many companies don't know how to keep the data uh first of all safe and then second thing is uh correct because lot of misinformation like on the data is happening uh in big companies >> okay which is one of the challenges or the most important challenge your company faces Right now >> I think it's not about technology because now their life has changed you know like 10 years ago for one solution I have to look on like their groups like I say like this is my problem what should I do for example in technical way like if I have to make like some code you know I what is the code for this like complicated stuff so I have to take help from the forums you know like I have to go online and check with some people technically now things are very easier but the processes are very complex like if you go to like big companies they have bureaucracy you know like especially in government you see like from one department to another department the the communication is not so easy and to get approvals even even more difficult. Uh so I think in current scenario I would say like this uh the to to to to just get like fast uh you know approvals and and and uh coordination is difficult especially in big companies uh government companies for smaller small scale companies startups is more easier because you know you sit in one room with everybody and everything is so easy but like big organizations like government defense uh space uh the data is also you know you need to keep it secure so it's not easy to use open source for example you need to use only like in-house stuff uh so yeah these are very complicated which only delays stuff but hopefully now their focus is more on uh on you know on self um dependency for for example >> using open source models instead for APIs right >> like NATO for example is now working with America but if America is not there then we need to have our own capabilities. So building our own capabilities is very important uh which uh the government has started to focus on right now and they give they're giving more budgets to spend on it for example because previously it was not a big deal and you know your own making own capabilities was not much a problem but now because the defense is now very uh uh sensitive uh you know topic uh it's very important to have your own integrity and own stuff in your hands. So Europe is now working on it. So I think that's like how it's going to work in future. >> How do you see the industry the your industry the IT industry in the next 10 to 20 years with this AI advancement? See the the a advance will make people more smarter because in the phone right now like if you compare 20 years ago uh as a small child you don't know you have to ask your parents your teacher uh about something you know and now like the generation is so smart like if you have something in your mind you can check with the AI and you can do something by yourself because there are so many things online and I think in coming time people will become more smarter but the only thing is like uh where there are there is no requirement of human interface that will be eradicated and the same tasks which are performed every day uh doesn't need humans anymore. So on that uh if you are productive for example as a human even you are a plumber or you are uh you know you can do something with hands you are a farmer that I would say like will be more productive but if you are sitting in an office and you think like you are a consultant and you get like paid in like checks I think those jobs will be will be gone because uh repetitive task and task which doesn't need uh human interference will will go but uh other other stuff like industry as like IT industry is one thing where all the money flows in but maybe the money flows from IT industry to other like agriculture space uh other stuff like you know where you you really need humans you know >> yeah okay uh what's one ask that you would like to have for the viewers the community and the network something that a contact some funding anything >> I would just say like uh I can just say on a human perspective that uh technology will come and Oh, but your vision uh your ethics uh your uh energy should stay the same. Uh when you see something, you should be interested in it. You should be curious about it and you should be able to approach people because many people do not approach people. >> Would you like to to look for a contact in the network? Like that's what I mean. >> Which kind of contact would you like? I would like to know like if somebody's interested to have offshore support model >> in Asia and cheaper model uh we can provide like uh uh talent uh from developers to project managers >> any specific uh company size that you're looking for or company sector >> we we have like companies from like 10 million to 100 million and we can also um uh organize more um support bigger sport models because we started just like few three few years ago and we have lot of u u library for uh good talent uh so if >> especially big enterprises >> yes like we have good AI developers ERP developers uh those kind of uh human talent we have a lot and we have a setup where we can provide uh good expertise in a cheaper uh version >> and good >> perfect one lesson that you would like to give to the entrepreneurs or founders watching in this interview, one lesson from your entrepreneurship or advice. >> Uh, one lesson I would say like of course um just I think when you wake up you should be energetic. It's not only about your work but also other things in life. When I wake up I also look at in my garden I look at the leaves and plants. So it also gives me like you know a good energy. So I think not only work but also other aspects of lives are very important. That's what I do. I don't know if it works for other people. Uh but yeah, that's >> rich life. Perfect. Amazing. Thank you for the interview. >> Thank you so much. >> Nice to meet you. >> Thank you.